To expect husband to keep helping with housework until its all done in the evening and we can sit down to relax together?

[disneybee]

My husband works pretty much full time hours (but across several jobs, so not much routine at all) while I look after our two young kids at home and do most of the work for the small business we run from home. I also used to freelance from home, but stopped because childcare was costing so much. I now predominantly look after the kids, and do all the food shopping, cooking and laundry.

DH comes home from work just after the kids' teatime most days. Usually showers, eats the dinner (that I cook every day) and then helps with cleaning up, dishes, getting the kids to bed, tidying up. But there's always a point like around 8:30pm / 9pm when he announces he's "had a good blast, going to put my feet up now." and he'll put the telly on. Meanwhile I am usually still finishing stuff off, hanging up a new load of laundry, and folding / putting away the laundry that's been drying all day. I really resent this last hour or so of work when he seems to think it's fine that I am still doing housework whereas he is relaxing. Any time I bring up my resentment of this - my core deep down resentment is that he puts his own needs first, and doesn't act particularly caring or protectively of me - it turns into a massive argument about how he works all day while I get to stay at home with the kids. AIBU to be pissed off at him?? Every time the housework is finally done and I can sit down to relax and its 10pm and I have to choose between some down time, or going to bed to get enough sleep before doing it all over again? Nb our youngest is not a great sleeper so I don't often get a full night's sleep either 😑

Definitely a martyr!
You can’t sort out laundry during the day because your 2 and 4 year old “help”? Then let them help.
Better it takes an extra 30 mins with them helping (and I bet it doesn’t) and you do 30 mins less at the park and 30 mins earlier to down tools at night.
For 30 hours a week, less travelling time, one of your kids can be in nursery for free.

Why would you send sheets for business out for laundry, but not towels?
Why would you not replace a tumble dryer that you can’t use?

You’re creating work for yourself.

YANBU

I felt like there was an imbalance of chores between myself and my dh so I made a list of everything that needed doing, split the days in to a section for each of us and split the chores between us. I also included days where we have no chores, no phones and no tv, so we can spend quality time together as a family / as a couple (once dd is in bed).

What you're doing is not sustainable and will make you and your dh unhappy.

Perhaps you need to sit down with DH and formulate a cleaning/childcare plan that you can both stick to. For example, DP and I split daily chores equally. In the morning I unload the dishwasher and then in the evening, he will load or hand wash all the dishes. We do a 20 minute quick clean in the evening where we both pick up, DP does dishes, I wipe down the bathroom, and DP cleans the kitchen. It only takes 20 minutes in the evening, and it means we wake up to a clean house. For laundry, we each do our own and DP will wash and dry joint laundry (towels, sheets, etc.) and I will fold and put away. We are about to have our first baby, so this setup might change, but we have already outlined a rough idea of how general chores will be divided once the baby is here.

I also suggest outsourcing as much as you can afford. We have cleaner who comes twice per month to deep clean. Online food shop and Amazon order as much as possible. Can you hire someone to do admin like taxes?

Another that agrees it sounds more like an organisation/efficiency problem than a DH problem. I totally hear you on having 2 needy little kids though, mine are 2 and 3 and I'm a SAHM too. Me and DH are both normally relaxing in front of the TV by 8pm, I'd feel frustrated if I didn't get that relaxation time too! Things that may help (sorry if any of these seem stupidly obvious!):

• Empty dishwasher, make lunch, and put a wash on while the kids eat breakfast.
• Do your food shop online, I hate shopping with the kids.
• Totally take them out each day, but an hour of relaxing in from of the tv, or playing iPad games in the middle of the day is useful. I use that time to tidy the kitchen and hang the washing out.
• I do fold my washing in the evening, but it's pretty relaxing if done with a glass of wine and tv/music :-)
• One parent do bath and bed routine while the other tidies and does anything else needed (feeding pets, putting rubbish out etc). Alternate so it relieves the monotony.
• Start teaching the kids to wait for attention, even just a small time to start with, eg if you play nicely till I've finished putting these clothes away you can have my full attention. It may take a while for them to get it though....
• Let them 'help' but give very specific tasks like putting the clothes in the washing machine, or putting the washing powder in.

It may well be the lack or sleep that's making it harder for you though

I'm very hypocritical here because I'm very unorganised too (there's currently a small pile of washing up to do that I'm leaving until tomorrow, some of it left over from last night as we were out all day then had an unexpected guest when we got home).
I think you need a new tumble dryer for a start - we refused to get a tumble dryer and now a year in it's too much and the dryer is arriving by the end of the week (cannot express how excited I am).
If your youngest is two then your children are old enough to tidy up, with guidance but they can do it. I work in a nursery and before every food time it's tidy up time for however long it takes. Is your house set up so you could tidy up, give them their food then hoover/do laundry/clean somewhere you're cleaning at night whilst they're eating?
If there isn't a way to hoover during the day without children getting in the way/at risk of choking and you not hearing, could you get a cheap roomba type thing (£50 in the factory shop at the moment) and as you're leaving the house to take them out just turn it on? Get a carpet sweeper for upstairs and turn it into a game for the children, I love my roomba and sweeper, it makes life so much easier and if edges get missed I can easily run the hoover quickly round the edges.
I understand children getting in the way when they're trying to help, but it's a good way of getting them to learn to do housework from an early age, even if it's something simple like giving them a pile of clothes each that needs to be hung up and taking it to their bedroom. That way if they drop them you haven't wasted time folding them already, and whilst you're hanging the clothes up they could play next to you, or help by passing you a hanger and an item of clothing each?
Bath time and evening tidy up time needs to be shared, one of you do bath time one of you do the kitchen for example, then you swap over and one could put your clothes away or hang up the next load of washing whilst the other does bed time. Stop pandering at bedtime, have a cup or a bottle of water next to their beds, give them their milk whilst story is being done, then kiss goodnight and door is closed. They'll try their luck and keep getting up but channel your inner super nanny and just keep putting them back. They'll get the picture after a few nights (my mum says it takes three days to conquer any habit. Not sure how true it works but I'm told my siblings and I were nightmares at bedtime and after three nights of tough love we went to bed no issues). If they don't play up as much for your partner he can put them to bed each time.
Why is the two year old still waking at night? I understand that not all children sleep through at this age, but is it because they've woken for a cuddle or dummy has fallen out or they're going to bed too early? If it's for a cuddle maybe sit next to them so they know you're there but don't touch them, just say ssh mummy's here, then sit there until they're asleep. Then the next time go in and say it's okay mummy's here but leave before they're asleep. Then just pop your head round the door. In theory they'll learn you're there for them but also that night time is a time for sleeping. If it's for a dummy could it be time for the dummy fairy to visit? Otherwise try pushing bedtime back, cutting a nap, or waking them earlier?
I understand the need to get children outside too, do you not have a garden? If you do could you turf them out in there whilst you get on with something? Otherwise mornings are for tidying then after clearing up from lunch you go to the park. I know little children can't tell the time, but maybe get a clock that chimes the hours? A two year old should be able to count to at least 5 confidently so they'll know which numbers are closer to 4 and that they'll have less time the closer it gets?
For yourself could you write a list of jobs to do each day so dishes are done every day, even if it's in one go after dinner, hoovering on a Monday Wednesday Friday and Sunday, laundry on a Tuesday Thursday Saturday, mopping on a Wednesday and Sunday, etc... Any jobs that can be done alongside each other do, so clean the toilet whilst the kids are in the bath, or wipe the sides as youre finishing the washing up etc...
Folding laundry is usually done whilst I'm sat in front of the tv, and I get my partner to put it away but you could leave it in the basket and put it away as you're on your way to bed or leave it until morning when you're in the wardrobes looking for clothes to wear or in the airing cupboard looking for a clean towel or whatever.
I know it's hard, because I know exactly what to do but don't do it 😂 but if you'd like we could do a check in with each other regularly to keep us going eg message if we've had a good day and managed to relax by 9pm or if we've had a bad day use each other as a safe space to moan and then reassure each other the next day can only be better?

I think that what he is doing is fine.

We both work full time but I get home earlier so do some housework and then put dc to bed and once dc are in bed (around 8pm) I do absolutely nothing. It’s like a switch has turned off in me and I need to sit and relax.

What has been done is done and everything else is left for tomorrow.

If there are dirty dishes dh will do them quickly (basically stick in dishwasher and wipe down surfaces) when he gets in so around 8.30pm and then we both do nothing.

Life’s too short to be doing housework all evening. And I think it’s fine to leave things like laundry and tidying till the next day, as long as actual dirty tasks are done before bed like dishes and bins.

YABU I think you should stop playing the martyr, sit down with your husband and enjoy each others company.

Not getting how there is still a load of just your personal family washing EVERY day. How often is everyone changing their clothes?

And half an hour of telly a day won't hurt them but will get you sat down earlier.

Does your eldest DC not go to nursery as they are 4? Could you not put the two year old into a playgroup a few mornings a week?

Personally, after lunch I would let them watch TV (or just the four year old if the two year old still naps) and do the laundry then.

Like others have suggested, one of you puts the kids to bed whilst the other cleans up.

Doing chores until 10pm is insane!

And BTW, l have a two year old, who still wakes in the night sometimes. I understand how full on toddlers are and why taking them out keeps everyone sane. This is exactly why I put them into a play group a few mornings a week, so that I can be as productive as I can.

Get your DH to quit his job to help with chores and children.

You then work full time to pay for the mortgage/bills etc. Role reverse.

Then when you;ve done a full days work and are home at 6, but have to graft till 10pm to satisfy your own needs to keep a tidy house, see how you feel.

P.S. your choice to have kids so you cant blame them for your tiredness/ messy house etc. I guess the easiest thing is to blame DH for that too.

Its like setting fire to yourself then complaining your burning.

I too have shedload of washing and I always put a load on as soon as I can in the morning- sometimes I do it after my baby's 4am feed so that it's ready for me to hang up by the time we're up again.

I get why you don't want to leave the kitchen a mess when you go to bed - I'm surprised PP's are suggesting this because I find it really depressing to walk into a filthy kitchen in the morning, and then you're spending your whole day playing catch up. But I think the main area that's causing the stress is the washing. If you get the washing sorted during the day then I bet you'll find your whole evening will be much easier.

Everybody has a point where they are tired and need to sit and relax, he sounds like he works hard and helps out more than some. I would also sit down at 9 if you feel tired/ resentful and leave whatever needs doing to the next day. Spend an hour relaxing with your husband and sharing quality time, the happiness will increase and remove the feelings of resentment :)
I’m not even going to get onto “do you never sit down all day/ how many hours does he do/ you do... it’s not a competition it’s life! It’s to be enjoyed and shared as teammates, prioritise happiness and your relationships over that last load of laundry :)

Yes you are a martyr
No one likes a martyr

It does sound a bit chaotic!
It's great that he does stuff but you need some wind-down time together -what time are the kids down by, say 8 latest? Presumably one of you is doing bedtime while other one is doing dishes?
Meal plan and online food shop. Deffo. Lifesavers.
Sort laundry situation - get a new tumble dryer, the're not particularly dear. Rethink the times of day when you do the laundry -which bit needs the most time e.g. sorting it, hanging it or folding and putting away? Judicious use of telly at that time.
Have you got too much 'stuff' - toys everywhere that need tidying up etc? Rethink storage and routines - things like baskets for lego/train track whatever that can be got out and kids pack them up before a new one comes out. The Ikea Kallax units with the soft boxes in are good.

I don't think I'd be too happy doing laundry at 10pm if I knew my partner had been strolling round the park or 'a nice cafe' whilst I'd been slogging away at work.

I mean you sound like it’s a total mountain clearing up after breakfast for example.
Time slips away easily.
You just need to get more focused

Don't drop the fun times outdoors with the kids, that time is important. BUT so is time chilling with your hubby after a long day.

Decide on the essential jobs of an evening and decide who will do what.

For us there are only three jobs, cook dinner, wash up, put youngest child to bed.

Usually the person who cooks dinner doesn't wash up (although ideally we try and do a load while cooking so that our dishwasher is empty ready for after dinner).

The laundry doesn't need to be folder or put away at any specific time. I generally only hoover once a week now but my kids are older, when they were little I hoovered once a day, usually after dinner.

Saturday shop or shopping on line to free up time during a week day.

Being at work is not all work! I bet he is getting a lunch break, coffee breaks, time with colleagues, maybe various work-related perks! It's one of the reasons I love going to work!

Talk to him in a way to find solutions you can both work with.

And you should not be responsible for car and all the other jobs, find a better distribution of jobs but find a way to make our evenings a nice together time.

your evenings!

Getting more organised in the day time is your way to go.

I feel very much like he goes out and works, and everything else is my responsibility, making decisions, organising house and car maintenance, running the business including the admin and accounts.

This is the major issue IMO, especially this bit: making decisions.

Have a look at this cartoon "you should have asked" I think it may make a lot of sense!

english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

Basically, your DH is treating you as if you're the manager of all household things (AND his business too). He's shirking responsibility by leaving everything up to you. He's doing a shift, but when his shift is done he's clocking off. But you're in a position where you can't just clock off.

If you're not done till 10pm and he's finishing at 9pm then this is a problem. The solution might not be that your DH also works till 10pm. The solution may be being more efficient in the day. Or it may be him doing his own bloody books - or doing something in return for you. Or any one of a zillion different solutions. But the point is, the balance is out and he's not concerned, he's just leaving it to you to sort out.

How is he at talking about this stuff? Can you say to him that you need to have a chat about how the day isn't working for you? Will he engage with you help with a solution?

I’m sometimes still doing jobs at 10 pm but I have a full time job and older children who have evening activities and go to bed later. When I was at home with my children when they were younger I was rarely up later than 8:30-9. Save the jobs for the day.

By the way, I posted a thread similar in some ways to this when DD was a baby and DS was a pre-schooler. I couldn't work out why everyone else seemed to find it so easy to get stuff done and I was always chasing my tail.

I explained what I was doing and got ripped the shreds by helpful MNers who told me that I just wasn't trying hard enough and that the things I found difficult weren't. And that I should be able to juggle 100 things and my DC as they were all doing it.

But I just couldn't. It was very demoralising (and not MN at its best tbh).

In more recent years I've discovered:

1. My DS genuinely is harder work than most people's DC. He's got autism and can be very oppositional because of it and just harder work in general (although he is awesome and worth the effort!)

I had no idea at the time that he was more demanding that DC without SEN. I had no idea he had any SEN! I just thought I was being crap.

1. I have found out recently that I have ADHD. (Diagnosed last year). Again this was something I had no clue about back then. But I've found out that actually, the reason I seem to find basic stuff like keeping on top of housework so much harder than everyone else is that my brain is wired differently and I find organisational tasks and judging time harder than others. Who knew?! Not me, back then. Again I just thought I was being crap / not quite getting it.

I'm not saying that I think your DS has ASD or that you have ADHD!

But that it's sometimes really not helpful when others say "well I can do 4 loads of laundry while cooking a 3 course meal, balancing my DD on my toes and learning latin" because maybe, just maybe, there is a genuine reason that things are more difficult in your house. e.g. perhaps your DC actually are more demanding that more others, at this stage in their lives or some other underlying reason that makes keeping on top of this shit difficult.

I've just noticed this:

my core deep down resentment is that he puts his own needs first, and doesn't act particularly caring or protectively of me

and this:

actually it's good to know I AM being unreasonable and I need to change something rather than get pissed off at my DH

You've had some good advice about keeping on top of things that I hope will be helpful.

But, has the problem of your DH putting his needs first gone away? I can't see it has.

Even if he doesn't want to do any work after 9. And even if the solution isn't him doing any work after 9, he is just sitting on his bum while you look after the house on a regular basis. And you've likely not had a proper break all day if you've been with the DC.

Would you just sit on your bum while he did housework until 10pm every day? Or would you notice, and ask him if he needed help? If you didn't want to do any work that late, even acknowledging he's still working and trying to help change things so he can come put his feet up with you at 9pm would be a nice thing to do, wouldn't it?

So why isn't he expected to give that to you?

I despair of MN sometimes. Especially AIBU. People love to have a go in AIBU. They love to pick on the OP, and you've given them a really easy way to pick on you.

But I don't think your DH is treating you well, and you need to deal with this or resentment will continue to grow.

Read that cartoon I linked above and see if it chimes with you. If it does (it will!) maybe show it to your DH and see if he gets it, and say you'd like to have more of a partnership on this stuff. And that if you're cleaning the house till 10pm, for him to notice things are out of balance and help you work out how to lighten the load so you can stop at 9pm too, instead of sitting on him behind and letting you do all the wife work.