Awful situation - someone I manage going for the same promotion?

[icecreaminapot]

I have applied for a job (not in my current place) that would represent a step-up for me, but would be a natural progression. I spoke to my boss first, who was supportive.

Today, someone I manage has told me they also applied. We have both been short-listed. The issue is this person is not qualified or experienced enough for the role. Yes, I know, they are entitled to apply for any job they want, but the only way they would meet the criteria is if they lied about what they have done in the current post. They are struggling in their current role, never mind trying to step up. I have had to support them massively and refer them to my boss to try and improve matters. They are in no way ready for the next step up, but to get short-listed they must have taken credit for things I or others in our team have actually done. No doubt about it.

My worry is that in doing this they have probably cast doubt on my application. I feel like we have both been shortlisted so the recruiters can work out who's lying! What do I do? If anyone ha experience of this would love to hear it, especially from recruiters.

I've been vague for obvious reasons, but ours is a niche industry so I know that this is a problem and our applications will have stood out like a sore thumb.

The very fact that you're saying I want to discuss them in my interview when I have repeatedly said I won't, but may have to mention elements that the panel will be able to work out refer to this person shows you to have poor comprehension and thinking skills, but hey...*

You're wrong, your intentions are clear and would be clear to the interviewers. I understand perfectly well, but it's obvious you're planning on dissing them without naming them. They'll spot it a mile off.

Maybe you have applied for a job below your seniority and experience levels OP. Aim higher

OP, I get it - you say they couldn’t have been shortlisted without lying on their cv. I’ve seen many job ads for niche roles that will say ‘unless you have x qualification or have delivered projects using x software, you will NOT be shortlisted for interview So don’t apply’. If this is similar and you have those qualifications or experience and know full well the other person doesn’t, then of course it will feel very unfair.

I also get why you feel it may reflect badly if this other person has indeed told some big porkies to get an interview. You’ll feel like you’re on the back foot and need to prove you’re the one telling the truth.

However, ultimately it’s one of those situations where you really do have to just concentrate on your own performance and be confident in your own abilities rather than worrying about the other person. You’ll have to trust their lack of experience will show in interview and the new company will be able to work out who is the better candidate based on previous roles and experience.
Some people really do tell huge lies on their CV on the off chance no one will find out and once they’ve got the job they’ll be able to wing it. Hopefully, the interview process will establish if this other person has been truthful.

Go in an interview in the way as if you didn’t know the other had also applied, and like a PP said, if you need to provide a reference for the other, give it to your manager to do or say you can’t provide one due to conflict of interest. Good luck!!

And to those who have said that bad staff are always down to bad managers - utter rubbish. People lie to get interviews, lie in their interviews, and do end up getting jobs they absolutely can not do or can not train to do. I’ve had a member of staff do this, she got the job in a very technical project management role only to start and I discover she didn’t even have the most basic PC skills (didn’t know how to close a tab or scroll down on a screen) let alone skills needed for the job! It would be like me applying to be a rocket scientist, lying about my qualifications and experience, then complaining I had a bad manager that couldn’t train me when I started and couldn’t do the job!

Don’t worry about references - I work for a very well know firm and we only give confirmation of role and dates - this is the norm now. Curious that she told you and would have been better if she had not .

I don’t think you’re bu at all. Hope you get it op - update us please?

It sounds like you are getting yourself into a state over nothing.

I do understand the way you are feeling but remember that you are the more experienced and senior person and that should come through at the interview.

It's usually not that difficult to spot the lies when you are face to face with someone in an interview. They know this person is more junior than you and will test them to see if they are up to the task.

How many stages would there be to the recruitment process?

I got quite a specific job over a woman who was managing me at the time. I had relevant experience to the new job in a previous role when I applied but she hadn't recruited me herself so she might not have realised this. It was a big step up and they obviously took a chance on me when they didn’t have to but it does happen.

I wouldn’t panic though op, all will come out in the interview if the recruiters know what they are doing. Don’t let it throw you off, just be very specific about your own achievements and trust the process.

Have been in a similar position, up against another person who wasn't as well qualified. The job spec included things like 'preferably a graduate' (which I was) and another applicant (male, who I knew) and I were shortlisted. He was not a graduate, didn't meet the criteria and was a very close friend of the person the role reported to. He got the job. I was called immediately afterwards and offered another job on a 6 month contract, the role was to train/coach him to do his new job. The HR person was very, very uncomfortable doing this and refused to put anything in writing. I was too busy to bother to pursue it and would not have wanted to work there after that. The job had been advertized in order to get very few applicants and I was unexpected in that I fully met the criteria, and the real job was only ever going to be given to the person who got it. There are loads of underhand things that go on but this was one of the most blatant I've ever come across. I think it's likely there are no hidden agendas for the job you are applying for but wouldn't totally discount the possibility.

You are being unreasonable, do you know what they do outside or work? Or what they did before you started working with them? They could have the skills and experience, but you only know them in work. Not everyone has one job and one role.

Gin not a surprised to hear it was a man who did this to get a man in.

Can you bring evidence along to the interview showing you led the projects, you did the work etc? Print out reports you did or whatever. Namedrop the people in your industry who would know it was you they dealt with. Bring any certificates etc too?

Presumably the other person won’t be able to show this evidence?

I know all about this person's employment history and qualifications as I was involved in recruiting them. Also because of that I know that they interview very well (but then don't deliver). It was, however, a weak field when we recruited them. But I know people are right to say I just need to concentrate on my own prep, and that's what I'm going to do.

The interview and other tasks will all take place on one day and all candidates will be there together. Shit, it's going to be awkward...

I hope this makes it into the papers, likely be fairly evident who it is about. I would take it further if I found out my manager had been spouting about me online.

DrJack but if it was clear straight away that the person didn't even have basic pc skills, never mind skills to do the job, why was that not dealt with? You don't have to PIP for the first two years. You either upskill them and the learn pdq or you end the employment. Failure to do that and expecting a wider team to be stuck with them and shoulder the extra weight is absolutely the fault of poor management.

The interview and other tasks will all take place on one day and all candidates will be there together. Shit, it's going to be awkward...

Definitely a teaching interview It doesn’t need to be awkward though. The last three interviews I’ve been to have been against people I know. It’s very, very common in teaching. You know that you meet the person specification. Focus on that, tell the truth in the interviews, yadda yadda.

The one thing I’d be worried about is that it’s also common in teaching to offer more jobs on the day than were actually advertised (eg to advertise a HOD, then also recruit a classroom teacher). This might mean you are both offered a job. You need to consider now whether you’re willing to work with this colleague again, or if you would decline the role if you were both offered one.

If I’m right about teaching, I can imagine it’s a situation where this colleague is trying to jump a step. Eg, if they’re a music teacher, you’re head of music, and now you’re both applying for head of performing arts faculty. This is also relatively common, and they’re perfectly entitled to try to do it. “Focus on me” needs to be your mantra!

(Oh, and good luck!)

If she doesn't know you've applied, I can only imagine her panic when she sees you there!

She'll realise that her lies are about to be exposed, and everything that she plans to say at her interview is now in tatters.

Something similar happened in our office. Very particular skill set. Two different colleagues went for the role and the one with way less experience got it. Everyone knows she took credit for other people's work. She actually did it to me before. She was let go after nine months because she didn't have the skill set. There is literally nothing you can do about this so I would just focus on yoir interview. It is extremely annoying for sure.

@BlueBirdGreenFence It was dealt with. I raised concerns straight away with my director who at first didn’t believe me as it sounded so unbelievable. My director wanted to see for themselves if this person really was as bad and so took over their training. After a week or two I received a call from my director apologising for not believing me initially and that they couldn’t believe this person had even the smallest amount of skill or experience in our field as it was clear she hadn’t a clue! Further in-depth digging revealed she had indeed lied on her cv and had a friend at her old work write her reference (and lie) rather than HR or management and she was removed from the post.

They are not trying to work out who's lying so stop being dramatic.

You've both been shortlisted because on paper you both fit the criteria. That's it.

Concentrate on knocking it out of the park in the interview. You're clearly more qualified and this will definitely come across in the interview.

When presented with 2 identical applicants interviewers know which questions to ask to unpick the truth.

Have faith in your abilities.

I get what you’re saying OP, and I can understand why you feel the way you do. I’d be especially insecure if I felt they generally interview better than I do.

All the PP’s advice is right. Focus on yourself and put your best self forward. If you don’t get the job, it’s nothing to do with the other person interviewing better/ lying/ having said something. It’s because you weren’t impressive enough.

If your junior does get the job and isn’t up to it - they won’t last. If your junior does get the job and is up to it - good for them and unfortunately not so good for you. If neither of you get the job, neither of you were suitable.

Separate yourself from this issue. It’s a distraction from your performance.

Best of luck, hope it all goes well OP. Try not to worry about what might be.

Any update, @icecreaminapot ? When is/was the interview?

Yes, your answers will be much better in things you were responsible for. Are there any specifics you can be sure to mention, which demonstrate it was definitely your work and not the other woman's?

I completely get where you’re coming from OP and it’s not unreasonable to feel uncomfortable and concerned.

If you know enough to know that they must have been dishonest in the application (I know other PP have cast doubt on this but I’m taking your assertion about this at face value), then you have every reason to suspect they may pull the same stunt at interview.

And I’m astonished to see people blaming you for them failing at their job. You can manage and support your tits off for some people but they still need don’t have what it takes. And if the people at the top, or the employment structures in place, don’t allow for getting rid of them, then you’re stuck with them and it’s not your fault. I work in the public sector and see this all the time.

Hope the interview went/goes well.