Awful situation - someone I manage going for the same promotion?

[icecreaminapot]

I have applied for a job (not in my current place) that would represent a step-up for me, but would be a natural progression. I spoke to my boss first, who was supportive.

Today, someone I manage has told me they also applied. We have both been short-listed. The issue is this person is not qualified or experienced enough for the role. Yes, I know, they are entitled to apply for any job they want, but the only way they would meet the criteria is if they lied about what they have done in the current post. They are struggling in their current role, never mind trying to step up. I have had to support them massively and refer them to my boss to try and improve matters. They are in no way ready for the next step up, but to get short-listed they must have taken credit for things I or others in our team have actually done. No doubt about it.

My worry is that in doing this they have probably cast doubt on my application. I feel like we have both been shortlisted so the recruiters can work out who's lying! What do I do? If anyone ha experience of this would love to hear it, especially from recruiters.

I've been vague for obvious reasons, but ours is a niche industry so I know that this is a problem and our applications will have stood out like a sore thumb.

Look at it this way
Worse case is they get the job due to lying and fail miserably and as such it is advertised in a few months ago.
Another option is that they may interview well but if asked technical questions may utterly fail.

They may have been offered a interview if not many people applied for the job role, as sometimes they will offer interviews on people who are just under requirements depending on experience and other such factors.

Try not to stress over it, as if you put too much time and effort into stressing about them your gonna do your own interview a disservice and potentially limit your own chances at shining!

I think you are getting a hard time.

A place I worked underwent restructure, our team had to list what jobs we were responsible for, then our manager (hardly ever in our office and flitting off to meetings at a drop of a hat) said they were doing X.

Due to their superior position it was put as their responsibility which was a complete lie. We did X and we could prove we did it as a team. It may well have been a higher level thing but the manager was never there to do it so we had always done it. For years.

Basically her saying it was her doing it made our claims look like a jumped up lie. So I can see why the OP would be worried about what her colleague said on her application.

I'll add that where I am, a referee is asked specific questions about the applicant and their competencies and performance. A confirmation of employment ie dates worked would go to HR not a referee.

In my previous role (corporate), only confirmations of employment are allowed. Individual managers are asked not to give references and if they do so, it is on a personal capacity only. This was due to a legal case against the corporation previously.

When recruiters are adamant for a personal reference, the employee usually asks a friend of theirs to write it and tells them what to write.

It makes a mockery of the whole reference procedure but in my experience, references are often a box ticking process anyway.

As for your last post I as an interviewer i would take a dull view to you naming someone or answering in an obvious way that means I could work out who you meant.

There are plenty of ways to answer that type of question in an anonymous way, there is no need to trash someone especially as you know you work in a niche area so therefore people know each other!

I suppose that is partly because I recruit for roles that require confidentiality and includes working with vulnerable clients etc so I at minimum expect them to know how to anonymise what they share appropriately.

All you need to focus on is your own interview. Anything else is irrelevant. You prepare well, go in and do the best interview you can. The organisation will then choose which of you suit their requirements.
It is no more complicated than that.

Yes, I'll focus on my own performance, but what about references???

You give the reference request to your HR department saying you can't complete as there is a conflict of interest. Ideally you would tell her the same. Do not fill in yourself.

A decent interview will weed out the competencies. It's really hard to get a job that exceeds your experience after a certain level. They ask for too much evidence.

If you were answering questions about under-performance, it would be unusual to be that specific that it's clear you are talking about one person in particular that they can identify.

Look it's an odd situation, of course. But you're being really defensive here, and not giving a great account of yourself.

Focus on your interview and what you can offer.

It’s not an awful situation, simply that you and a work colleague have both applied for the same promotion.

Maybe colleague doesn’t like present job, hence feels this new role would suit them more. They may have relevant experience you don’t know about.

Did you assume the job was yours? You can’t assume that until they offer it to you. There may be others also more experienced applying for it.

I certainly don't assume the new job is mine. Far from it. But I was really excited about the opportunity. If my colleague gets it, PPs are right in that I will be able to tell myself that it is a bit of a shit place anyway, and at least I won't have a weak link in my team anymore.

If neither of us gets it though I will be left wondering whether they had doubts arising from us both claiming things that couldn't both be true and therefore will feel pretty pissed off tbh.

But, yes, nothing I can do about it other than prepping for the interview as best I can!

What is it with calling a person them/they? FFS just use she/he!!!

If neither of us gets it though I will be left wondering whether they had doubts arising from us both claiming things that couldn't both be true

If neither of you get it, it is most likely that someone else more suitable did.

Have you not interviewed yourself over the years? Please think back to how you thought about candidates - no way do interview panels go into anything like this angst

(Btw, I manage someone who is really dire & manipulative & has caused untold mayhem in my team. Everything has been done to help him, he's subject to disciplinary procedures etc so I get the feelings you might have! But I would just be 🤣 if I was up against him in an interview, there's NOTHING he could do that would affect my performance)

Here is a case of someone lying on a CV that was found out
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-51225215

What is it with calling a person them/they? FFS just use she/he!!!

Because MNers never answer differently depending on the sex of the protagonists, of course.
Where's the sarcasm emoji?

Yes it's not an ideal situation but you're going to have to try to forget that this person has applied. Just go into the interview and answer all of the questions as you would anyway. If you are asked about managing underperformance you can do this easily without mentioning any names or roles or alluding to anything at all.
If asked for a reference pass it on to your boss and explain why.
Surely if your boss is writing your reference and your colleague's reference, your reference will be better anyway?

Save being pissed off about particular scenarios until they happen - eg. you say if neither of you get the job you'll be pissed off because of both of you claiming things that couldn't be true. You'll be pissed off if the other person gets the job etcetc.
Stop thinking about how you'll be pissed off. Focus on doing your best as you would in any other circumstances.

By the way, if neither of you gets the job the most likely reason will be that someone else was better qualified or performed better on the day or was a better match for the company.

YANBU to find it awkward. It's bound to be awkward to be involved in a situation where you have good reason to think someone is lying but aren't in a position to directly call them out on it and it's worse when that lying would almost certainly contradict your own assertions. But as you've identified, there's nothing you can do about it really except focus on doing your best in your application.

On the reference front, is it not normal for your employee to ask you to provide a reference? Could you (should you?) put her off using you? If there is no guidance from HR on what such references should contain I would try to be diligent about providing the sort of reference you would provide regardless of it being a position you are also going for and know a lot about. Non-positive references are always tricky because you need to be factual but tactful and very careful. Which is hard when there is little good to say. Perhaps your boss or a peer could either write it or look over it for you. I might be tempted to ask their HR department if they consider it appropriate to be providing a reference given the conflict of interest and suggest someone else. But I'd be worried that could also backfire.

Unfortunately with recruitment we have to go on the application. However much it annoys you you have to let it takes its course.
Make sure you are fully prepared for the interview and what they may ask - be the best you can be. Don’t slag anyone off - this is about you and the skills you can bring to this job.
Think about innovative things you can bring to the role - be amazing! Good luck xxx

'My worry is that in doing this they have probably cast doubt on my application. I feel like we have both been shortlisted so the recruiters can work out who's lying! What do I do? '

YABU. That sounds a bit paranoid tbh.

You don't have to do anything out of the ordinary. You have experience in a more senior role than them, and you having held that role will speak for itself.

Put your colleague to the back of your mind and concentrate on yourself. Good luck🤞

The fact that you are even thinking about what this other person is claiming suggests to me that you may not be ready to step up. (But i hope you prove me wrong!) It should be of absolutely no concern or interest to you. Focus on what you know and can do and do not mention the other person in interview even if asked. Good luck.

I work in Recruitment and can say you are massively overthinking this.
If your job is as technical as you say, then the truth will clearly come out during the interview. Make sure you focus your time and energy preparing for the interview and think of some good examples that highlight your seniority for the role. If anything, this other candidate is doing you a favour as they will make you look even better!
Good luck!

Totally agree with the last post. Take all
Emotion out of it now you can't change the fact that this person has also been shortlisted try to forget it. Focus all your energy of smashing the job interview. Including if they ask about stuff be honest - you'd never name people who work for you and their faults anyway. Good luck!

I manage someone who resists taking the initiative with decision-making and role responsibilities despite support, but I imagine would interview well as has a positive outlook. Where she would fall down in interview is on the depth of experience that she could draw upon when answering questions.

Focus on your achievements, skills and experience and don't let this sap your motivation to prepare for your interview. Also, research the company to the nth degree, question them about their long-term strategy and vision. Show genuine interest.

And what if they ask me if I have ever had to deal with under performance and I have to omit the identity of the person? Or allude to it?

It would come across as really weird if you referred to someone by their actual name in the interview. It would be normal to say something like ‘yes, I’ve dealt with a colleague who underperformed . I did X, Y and Z to sort it out’

I also think it would be odd for you to consider giving a reference in this case if you were asked for one. Simply say it’s not appropriate and ask someone else to do it for you.

there are things they would have HAD TO put down to get short listed that they absolutely not done and I have...

Great. This gives you an advantage.
Without any reference to anybody else, simply make sure that those things that "had to put down to get short listed" are things that you highight in your own interview.
Show that you have done them, give examples, cite what specific benefits they brought your company etc etc - you know the drill.

Your colleague will presumably be unable to do this.

Apart from that - absolutely what PP have been saying - forget about anyone else's interview, just focus on your own & have fun showing the panel what you are made of.