Awful situation - someone I manage going for the same promotion?

[icecreaminapot]

I have applied for a job (not in my current place) that would represent a step-up for me, but would be a natural progression. I spoke to my boss first, who was supportive.

Today, someone I manage has told me they also applied. We have both been short-listed. The issue is this person is not qualified or experienced enough for the role. Yes, I know, they are entitled to apply for any job they want, but the only way they would meet the criteria is if they lied about what they have done in the current post. They are struggling in their current role, never mind trying to step up. I have had to support them massively and refer them to my boss to try and improve matters. They are in no way ready for the next step up, but to get short-listed they must have taken credit for things I or others in our team have actually done. No doubt about it.

My worry is that in doing this they have probably cast doubt on my application. I feel like we have both been shortlisted so the recruiters can work out who's lying! What do I do? If anyone ha experience of this would love to hear it, especially from recruiters.

I've been vague for obvious reasons, but ours is a niche industry so I know that this is a problem and our applications will have stood out like a sore thumb.

What a state to get yourself in over something you have zero control of. If they choose to employ this person you seem to think you’re eminently superior to there’s bog all you can do about it.

So you give them the reference in the same way you would if you had not applied for the role. That’s it really.

Are you a teacher?

I don’t think it’s accurate for people to say that references don’t matter. I check new starters references as part of my role, regardless of seniority, up to executive level.

We might only be able to confirm job title and dates with the ex employer, but we have caught out people fabricating their experience because of it.

My worry is that in doing this they have probably cast doubt on my application

This is where your thinking is losing grip of reality. There is no logic behind this statement.

You and your team member presumably work in a niche sector with specialist skills. The recruiter will have chosen the best 6 or so applicants to interview and there is little surprise that you and you co-worker are both in the shortlist. There is absolutely no reflection on your application that someone else junior to you is also in the top 6 applicants.

The interviewers will choose whoever performs best at interview:
If they choose you - great. You knew you were better anyway.
If they choose her then great - you've got rid of a dud colleague not up to the role.
If they don't choose either of you - great. No hard feelings for either of you.

So you give them the reference in the same way you would if you had not applied for the role. That’s it really.

Exactly.

Sorry, I know it seems ridiculous, and I've obviously withheld details, but there are things they would have HAD TO put down to get short listed that they absolutely not done and I have...

Most people would be infuriated I think...

It’s a lot of angst for no reason at all.

If I got a new job, I could send my request to either my direct manager or HR. Maybe they’ve done to HR or another manager for the reference.

All in all, it’s really nothing to do with you. Ignore it and don’t let it derail your application, it’ll be you that loses out in the long term.

You're assuming the person has lied on their application, but you don't know what they've written, and it's not really any of your business anyway. If they have lied it will come out at the interview anyway, but again... none of your business.

If they need a reference you just give their job title and dates of employment... but considering that you have applied also, I wouldn't be surprised if your colleague has bypassed you and asked someone else to provide the reference.

That's true cervix

In my line of work, references matter. There's a phone call made & it would be a fairly in-depth conversation. Written references don't happen at all.

I can't actually work out why you're giving this any headspace at all. The point is... you (presumably) haven't lied on your CV, you've been shortlisted based on genuine merit, would get a good reference from your current boss and the roll is a natural progression from your current one. Unless you're really, really bad at interviews it sounds like you really don't need to worry about the other person? If you're asked to provide a reference for them, provide one that's factual.

I think it will be very obvious at interview if your colleague doesn’t know how to do the job, I really do

OP, after your last update. No I wouldn’t be infuriated because a) you don’t know for certain they’ve lied and b) It isn’t anything to do with you in regards to what they put on their application. How can you not see that?

If they’ve lied it’s up to the interviewers to figure out. I feel like you want someone to tell you to contact the company and tell them you think a colleague has lied on their CV. I don’t think anyone will, ignore it and try your best to get the job and concentrate on your own achievements.

I don't know why people think you're being unreasonable given how badly their performance has been. Presumably they interview well as they got the current job.

No @icecreaminapot I wouldn't be infuriated.

If what you say is true, they don't stand a chance. I'd be looking forward to performing well at interview & demonstrating my ability, confident that the other person won't.

But either way, I'd be focusing on me & my performance as that's ALL you have control over.

Are you concerned that you are going to be asked for a reference for the other person? If you are then surely the best thing to do is to speak to your boss and ask them to do the reference as it would be unfair for you to do it when your both going for the same role.

@icecreaminapot if they've lied on their CV they need to be able to back it up in the interview and this is where they'll fall down . Plus if they ask for references before interview them they might fail before they even get to interview.

I wish people would just take things at face value - it's a very specific role they're going for and they're not capable for it. They have failed all their targets at our place, despite huge input from me

You really don't come across well here, you're failing this employee and your team, it may well be true that she's failed, but you need to get a plan together on how she stops failing, are you even sure she's aware of her failings?

As others have said, for the role you need to stop thinking about her, it's none of your business, they're not doing it to find out who's lied or anything else, they're just interviewing the people who looked best in the applications. You now need to prove why you're right for the role, it's got nothing to do with who else is applying

No intention whatsoever of contacting the place, no. It would look awful on me, which is unfair.

Thelnebrati Yes, they interview very well. Annoying when you're then left with the reality...

You dont know that they lied and if they did that's their concern to justify. I wouldnt write a reference for this person,you need to remain objective which you might not be. How are you going to feel if they are offered the job.

In my line of work, references matter. There's a phone call made & it would be a fairly in-depth conversation. Written references don't happen at all.

By the same token, in my line of work it would be unheard of to phone somebody. If they tried, they would be told to put their request in writing and they would receive a fairly standard reference back. This would be fir a corporate role who are very afraid of being taken to court if they say the wrong thing.

My worry is that in doing this they have probably cast doubt on my application

I can't see how people aren't getting that this is a distinct possibility. It's a small industry, limited projects and limited clients.

OP says in her application letter "I led the team developing the social media strategy for Big Charity, and also designed and implemented the website e-commerce module for Niche Retailer". Which is all true.

Colleague, who collaborated with OP and took direction from her, claims that she was the one doing the leading. Someone's lying, obviously.

But if there is a very limited pool of candidates in a niche industry, the employer might decide to see them both anyway. A huge proportion of people do lie and exaggerate on their CV. You'd hope the employer would catch lies at interview stage.

Sorry, I know it seems ridiculous, and I've obviously withheld details, but there are things they would have HAD TO put down to get short listed that they absolutely not done and I have...

I just don't think you can ever know that. I had zero experience of one of the essential criteria for my job and I did wonder if it was even worth my while applying, but I did and I explained why and how I thought I could learn this skill. They gave me the job. They might not have done in a stronger field, but they obviously couldn't find someone who could do this and all the other things they wanted. They also really, really wanted a skill that I do have but which wasn't that emphasised in the job advert, and which has now turned into one of the main bits of my role. My colleagues were very surprised that I hadn't done X thing before and I'm sure some of them wondered if I lied about it on my CV as it's normally seen as a prerequisite for the role. But I didn't!

Thelnebriati sorry.

You really don't come across well here, you're failing this employee and your team, it may well be true that she's failed, but you need to get a plan together on how she stops failing, are you even sure she's aware of her failings?

How the fuck am I failing my team? I'm really not. How on earth do you get from huge input from me that they don't get that they're failing. They definitely do - loads has been out in place for this person, to no avail.

@icecreaminapot

Do you see how this is looking on yourself? You are telling us you’re this persons manager and they’re rubbish and failing and not hitting targets. Surely you should be training and getting an action plan in to develop this person? Maybe they do interview well and have done these things in a previous position rather than the one they’re in now.

Maybe they feel like their manager doesn’t like, encourage or support them enough which wouldn’t be a huge stretch from the things wrote so far on here. You’ve already accused them of lying with no proof! This person most likely needs an environment to bring out the best in them and this new place could be it.