Awful situation - someone I manage going for the same promotion?

[icecreaminapot]

I have applied for a job (not in my current place) that would represent a step-up for me, but would be a natural progression. I spoke to my boss first, who was supportive.

Today, someone I manage has told me they also applied. We have both been short-listed. The issue is this person is not qualified or experienced enough for the role. Yes, I know, they are entitled to apply for any job they want, but the only way they would meet the criteria is if they lied about what they have done in the current post. They are struggling in their current role, never mind trying to step up. I have had to support them massively and refer them to my boss to try and improve matters. They are in no way ready for the next step up, but to get short-listed they must have taken credit for things I or others in our team have actually done. No doubt about it.

My worry is that in doing this they have probably cast doubt on my application. I feel like we have both been shortlisted so the recruiters can work out who's lying! What do I do? If anyone ha experience of this would love to hear it, especially from recruiters.

I've been vague for obvious reasons, but ours is a niche industry so I know that this is a problem and our applications will have stood out like a sore thumb.

@Griefmonster I had a similar situation but the opposite in that my direct manager thought she was the dogs bollocks. She was so far up managements arse but shat on everyone beneath her. She even went so far as to start formally managing my performance. She never stopped to consider that it was her overbearing manner and micromanaging that led to me making mistakes. She would email me constantly asking how I was dealing with something and suggesting ways for me to do it - yes, thanks for that Im already doing that because I know how to do my job. Everytime my email pinged I had to brace myself. It was making me ill and my DH told me to go to the GP and get signed off with stress as he couldn't bear to see me getting so depressed. In the end I looked for another job and was offered one but when I told our senior director he offered me an alternative role to make me stay. Once I was no longer under her direct control I was so much happier and as an added bonus my new team are just lovely. The manager eventually went for a more senior role and left our department and I sincerely hope Karma will bite her on the arse and give her gangrene

Surely current GDPR rules would prevent you from "naming" people in your interview anyway?

Best not refer to GDPR if you don’t understand it. Discussing the poor performance of a team member has absolutely nothing to do with GDPR.

Asked for a reference

Refuse on the basis you have a conflict of interest. They can’t force you to give a reference.

You seem worried they'll get the job.

Agreed. Which seems strange if they are really that bad at their job.

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm less worried about them getting the job than that they will cast doubt on my application and interview.

I'm being deliberately vague but a large field for an interview in our area of work would be 5 or more. I can guarantee the person reading the applications will be on the panel and will have read all of them very carefully and will have noted discrepancies, which must be there. I have no intention of naming this person in the interview, but our respective roles and how they stand in relation to each other are obvious. Therefore it will be obvious that certain comments I make will relate to this person. That could reflect badly on me and look like I am denigrating them to ruin their chances, and it will also conflict with what they say. Then there's the fact that they will claim they've done or led on things that I have. That's going to be potentially tricky to unpick, but, yes, I will have fuller and more convincing answers so that element may be ok.

People may think I'm a shit manager and that's ok. I'm not going to give specific details of the kinds of things that have happened with this person as that would be wrong, but I sleep easy at night knowing I have done all I can to support them. They are slowly improving tbf, but are nowhere near ready for this next role.

If someone else gets it I will have to tell myself they were better, and obviously they probably will have been! It's just I'll be left with a nagging doubt that the panel weren't sure about us both so just went with someone else. But I'll just have to move on.

In our line of work you can't just 'let people go.' It's a long process, and, actually it'll be a long notice period if one of us does get it.

Surely current GDPR rules would prevent you from "naming" people in your interview anyway?

It's as likely to be a breach of the Dangerous Dogs Act.

GDPR is neither here nor there. There’d be no valid reason to name the person in an interview. ‘One of my line reports’ is all that would be required.

If you’ve been asked for a reference then why not ask your colleague for a copy of their application so you can make sure your reference supports it.

Do not do this. It would be totally unprofessional.

OP are they offering a lower salary and are possibly looking for someone junior that they can invest time in while paying less?

Otherwise study for your own interview. Provide examples backing up your answers. Prepare, prepare and prepare. Leave them in no doubt. Do not name somebody else and if it is a people management role do not criticise team members. Talk about your input to training and team organisation, talk about management meetings and management targets.. If the other candidate has not done this, it will become very obvious when you speak in detail about your role.

No they won’t!

Which begs the question...why is she still working there?

Most businesses have quite a long performance management process so they can't be taken to tribunal as they can prove they did everything possible to support the employee. Not to mention the time it takes to help someone before you start to go down the formal route.

The very fact that you want to discuss them in your interview will show you to be the weird obsessed person you are.

The very fact that you're saying I want to discuss them in my interview when I have repeatedly said I won't, but may have to mention elements that the panel will be able to work out refer to this person shows you to have poor comprehension and thinking skills, but hey...

Interviewers are used to people talking crap in their interviews, you will be able to answer follow ups confidently and with well thought out examples drawing on your knowledge. Even if the other person claims to have done x y and z unless they have a comprehensive understanding of it which they won't have they will be found out. Just concentrate on you.

Haven’t RTFT but your interview answers should focus on what you did in particular situations. It’s usually obvious when people aren’t doing that.

I get this OP. I think you can only be yourself and answer as honestly as you can in this situation, don’t overthink what the other person may be doing or saying. If the interviewer can’t see through it , then it can’t be down to you.
A few years ago I held a group position in an organisation which was very well known. Fast forward a few years and I have taken a step back career wise when I had small Dc. My new organisation advertised for a new person at my role level ( exact same role as me ) and had an applicant from my old company who had got no experience in my profession at all. In their old role they had attended some courses in said work area to help in their role (knowledge only) and they had never done anything like the job they were applying for. Their CV was a pack of lies about what their job title had been, but they interviewed well apparently, but from my point of view could not have told the true throughout as the time they said they did the job they would have been working for me, and they didn’t and never had worked in that role before or since. I would have known as still very much in touch with people. As it happens there was a stronger candidate who got the job so it didn’t arise, but I would have struggled to work alongside this person knowing what I did know.

Am I the only person who thinks it's weird that you and your direct report have both told your bosses that you are job hunting?

It's just as much your business what your direct report says during an interview as anyone else who interviews for the role.
I imagine if you spend your interview trying to 'out' your colleague it won't go down very well for you

This is a position in Teaching, I would guess - the taking up references prior to interview and telling management in advance is 100% education sector. Healthcare sometimes does it, but less often.

Just do the interview as though the other person hadn't applied. You can't provide the reference due to a conflict of interest, so it has to be passed up the chain. You might even be asked a question about that at interview, as it's a notable circumstance that a good senior leader would be able to answer.

I'd suggest if that happens, an answer saying that, obviously, you support all staff's wish to improve and progress, but in specific circumstances where there would be a conflict of interest, it wouldn't be appropriate to provide the reference yourself and you would refer the request immediately upwards, as any data regarding performance management, appraisals, achievements and areas for improvement would already be available to them as a result of your effective record keeping.

That way, you've not badmouthed anybody, you've shown you have common sense regarding ethics and employment law and you've pointed out that you keep good records. They can join the dots if they so wish.

It's none of your business and if you've seriously thought about naming the colleague in the interview if you are asked about managing bad performance I'd be questioning your professionalism.

I applied for the same job as my friend's 21 year old daughter (unknowingly). I have 30 years of experience and she was fresh out of college. It was a demanding role with potential to become broader. I wasn't short-listed. My friend's daughter got the job. I thought, ah, fine, they wanted someone they could mold and her personality must have fit. She left after 4 months because she hated the responsibility and didn't feel she'd pass her probation period. She jumped before she was pushed. Recruiters are strange people...

@DianaT1969

More likely they thought they could pay her much less than you and receive the same level of work.

I'm less worried about them getting the job than that they will cast doubt on my application and interview

Still this? Despite the pages of sensible advice? This is irrational. There is no reason to believe this.

In your interview act like you don't know she's also applied. If you want to use her as an example of, for example, dealing with a difficult member of staff then do it anonymously.

If they ask you about her directly (which they WON'T) then you just say that you don't think it would be professional to comment. Nor will they ask her about you.

If you come across in real life the way you have on this thread don’t attribute not getting the job to your colleague’s application, I wouldn’t be hiring anyone who presented as paranoid and delusional about the recruitment process which you unfortunately are.

Op you are defiantly overthinking this ....How would the company you have both applied for know who was manager of who? They may not even have registered you both work at the same place!

Honestly, stop worrying about this other person and focus on your own interview prep. You can’t really go in there and say “I know X is lying”. Assuming this other person has stretched the truth about their role in their current post, you just have to hope that the interviewers have enough knowledge of the field themselves, to be able to catch them out in their lies.

I used to work in HE in a specialist role.
I remember interviewing a candidate who on paper, was perfect for the role that was advertised and had the necessary experience gained from working in the same field at another Uni.

However, within a very short space of time during the interview, it was abundantly clear that this person had played a very junior supporting role because they simply didn’t have the detailed knowledge and understanding about the decision making processes that the project leader would have possessed. I was quite annoyed afterwards because they had blatantly lied on their application.

Maybe they are just going for the job to get interview practice which would be fair enough. Or to show they are interested in progressing. Definitely do the interview as if you have no knowledge of the other person having applied as people are saying. Be completely honest and just be yourself. I wouldn’t worry about them going for it if they are not good at their job. It is unlikely they will get it.

Do you have a manager that can give the panel the definitive answer that it was you that completed xyz and therefore obviously not her?

I get your concern, basically if she is taking credit for her managers (you) work then that's essentially saying you're ineffective and leaves all the work to her and then you take credit for it.
There's no simple way out of this other than hoping the truth will shine through!

Um , I think it's a non issue. You may not even get the job yet ! Forget you know and just go to the interview.