Awful situation - someone I manage going for the same promotion?

[icecreaminapot]

I have applied for a job (not in my current place) that would represent a step-up for me, but would be a natural progression. I spoke to my boss first, who was supportive.

Today, someone I manage has told me they also applied. We have both been short-listed. The issue is this person is not qualified or experienced enough for the role. Yes, I know, they are entitled to apply for any job they want, but the only way they would meet the criteria is if they lied about what they have done in the current post. They are struggling in their current role, never mind trying to step up. I have had to support them massively and refer them to my boss to try and improve matters. They are in no way ready for the next step up, but to get short-listed they must have taken credit for things I or others in our team have actually done. No doubt about it.

My worry is that in doing this they have probably cast doubt on my application. I feel like we have both been shortlisted so the recruiters can work out who's lying! What do I do? If anyone ha experience of this would love to hear it, especially from recruiters.

I've been vague for obvious reasons, but ours is a niche industry so I know that this is a problem and our applications will have stood out like a sore thumb.

there are things they would have HAD TO put down to get short listed that they absolutely not done and I have...

How do you know the shortlisting criteria?

You’re spending too much energy on their application. They’ve been shortlisted because their application ticked the boxes, just like yours. Recruiters read hundreds of forms, they probably haven’t even registered that you currently work together, and it will likely be a panel who interview you, chances are that (unless a small business) none of panel will have even assessed the first round of applicants.

If they aren’t qualified, this will come across at interview stage. You just need to focus on your application, and your interview. It’s likely you’ll have stronger competition than your colleague, so don’t waste any time or thought on their application - it’s none of your business.

I think you are getting a hard time here OP

So do I. I once worked for a lovely manager who, no matter how hard he tried, could not get one of my colleagues up to speed. Basically, she was just not good at her job. When her probationary period was up they let her go.

Sometimes you just get shit employees.

Good luck with the interview.

They have failed all their targets at our place, despite huge input from me.

This is exactly why they’re looking for a new job. All you can do is focus on you. Get your answers prepped. Answer honestly. If you’re asked about supporting colleagues, refer to job titles, not individuals. Good luck!

If you are required to give a reference prior to their interview, I was abstain and pass that task up to your manager. I would contact them to explain that you’ve done this for transparency purposes as you yourself have been shortlisted and you feel it would be unethical under the circumstances for you to provide the reference. Your manager can then provide an accurate reference possibly commenting on missed targets etc in a way that if you do that it may actually go against you at interview if it’s seen as you trying to thwart their chances.

This. This would go over very well in an interview, I think. (Although it has been while since I had any hiring to do).

Can you give an example of something similar they would have had to have done to be shortlisted (but haven’t)?

Given you’re senior, I can’t see how their application could make you look bad. If it conflicts with yours, they’re more likely to think the more junior applicant is ‘upping their credentials’ surely?

You’re wildly overthinking this. Just mind your own business. Do your best. If you don’t get it and your colleague does then give them the reference.

^
This with bells on

I've just got an interview for a job I'm not actually qualified for. To get it I will need to complete a year's worth of training. But it's quite a niche area and I have everything else they're looking for aside from this one qualification. They were clear that they've invited me to interview because of my unusual experience in related areas which will be valuable in the new role.

There would be no legal problems with me undertaking the job....it's not like nursing or similar but they'd have to hold my hand in some areas for a year or so.

Is it like that?

Three words. Not your problem.

What I think is really odd though is that an employer would shortlist someone at a more senior level and someone at a more junior level for the same role. That should not cast doubt on you, but it does cast doubt on their processes. But sometimes its pretty mechanical, tick boxing, so possibly they've got in that way.

You cant possibly know that they are testing whether you have lied so really dont assume that or you will go in on the defensive.

Go in, shine and do your best.

When asked about managing experience, talk about all the processes you have in place for managing performance. I think its highly unlikely they will ask for a specific example where you had to manage poor performance. Its likely you will feel like its the elephant in the room and they might push it, but as long as you dont falter or be pushed into talked about the person (too) specifically you will stay in control.

Have you made sure you are not down for the same day so you don't pass them at their offices? This would also tell you whether you are before or after them. If you are before you can breathe more easily. If you are after, at least you will know what any puzzled looks mean. Just carry on totally as normal.

Honestly, focus on your skills, experience and if they like you and want you none of this will matter.

^and yes as pp'ers have said they may have other things the employer is looking for.

Just be shit hot, that's all.

Also talk very specifically and in detail about the projects (assuming these are the projects you need to talk about too!) you think they claimed to do so there is no doubt they were not involved.

If they get the job and ask for a reference. I think its illegal to give a bad reference. Instead you give a tombstone reference. Xx worked here between these dates. Then if they want more they have to find another referee. I'm not sure though, you would have to check.

Agree with @Ginkypig:
To me It really is as simple as if this organisation hires her then you know they aren't the type of place that does their due diligence so it's not a place you would actually want to work

I also wonder if you have had a personality clash with this person as your level of concern reminds me of when I had a nightmare direct report. I couldn't adequately support her because she was so resistant to anything I said and thought she was the dogs bollocks. I eventually left because I just couldn't work with her. She was delusional about her abilities. I have more perspective on the situation now and see she would work well in a different environment and we were just a bad fit.

At the end of the day, you be you and let her be her. If her application reflects badly on you, then the reverse must also be true and only one of you is telling the truth. You really need to take the high road here and be content in your own honesty. Good luck!

If they get the job consider what you are doing wrong rather than what they are doing right

Good luck with the interview OP.

just like to point out that according to statistics men consistently apply for jobs for which they are not qualified without turning a hair( and are often appointed to them too) It is only us women who worry that we are not the perfect fit and think if we don't exceed in every criteria we are not right for the job.

It's a mindset we need to get out of.

I hate hate hate when managers disparage their reports. Crap workers are always due to crap managers. I was taught you help them upwards or outwards.

If you train staff to a high standard and treat them well hopefully they have all the tools they need to succeed. If that doesn't happen you performance manage by retraining, supporting and guiding them so they are upskilled to the standard required. If they still aren't there you manage them out via the proper processes. You're doing noone any favours to allow someone to fail day after day, have tensions rising between colleagues and allowing poor outcomes rather than putting on your big girl's pants and managing the situation.

So either she's not as shit as you're making out or you should be managing her better. But you definitely shouldn't be going around thinking her poor performance isn't every bit as much your responsibility.

Awkward! It'll be an uncomfortable notice period if they get the job!

BlueBirdGreenFence this ridiculous generalization: I hate hate hate when managers disparage their reports. Crap workers are always due to crap managers.
is incompatible with this:
I was taught you help them upwards or outwards.

If they are only crap because of their manager you should not be managing them out at all. You can't have it both ways.

It sounds from the OP's posts that she is managing her report out. But in most companies this: performance manage by retraining, supporting and guiding them so they are upskilled to the standard required. If they still aren't there you manage them out via the proper processes. takes a lot of time.

@icecreaminapot "And what if they ask me if I have ever had to deal with under performance and I have to omit the identity of the person?"

Surely current GDPR rules would prevent you from "naming" people in your interview anyway?

I dont understand this. Doesn't your job title for your current role (on your CV, LinkedIn etc) make it obvious you are more senior?

In my experience formal references are unheard of in the UK. Corporates do not allow staff to give them as there is too much liability.

What does happen which no one admits too, especially in specialist roles, is off record asking around. I've had phone calls via indirect routes checking if people I've worked with are "ok".

Usually not checking skills, but looking for a quick sense of whether someone is hard working, a team player, and most importantly, not an arsehole.

Not sure what business it is of yours. You seem worried they'll get the job.

Crap workers are always due to crap managers

Nah, that's simply not true.

@TheTruthAboutLove - Have you ever managed anyone? I have had really bad trainees in my previous job, people who were really not cut out to do the job and would fai ldespite of support from MANY people wh put in effort they themselves not willing to do, they would pass the training period by the skin of their teeth and often move jobs often, being crap at every single one purely because they could not be bothered to change anything about themselves. Some thing you just can't help.

I wish people would just take things at face value - it's a very specific role they're going for and they're not capable for it. They have failed all their targets at our place, despite huge input from me

Maybe you’re a terrible manager? Which is why they’re going another job.

Just concentrate on your own application, give the references required and stop giving this headspace.

It’s not your job to judge their ability for this role.

Actually I can see where you are coming from OP
If she says she was solely responsible for delivering XYZ in her interview and you say the same thing the interviewers will have to decide who is telling the truth, it could definitely muddy the waters
Unfortunately there’s nothing you can do apart from give a brilliant interview with as many fact based examples of your skills as possible and hope they see through the other candidate.

I get your concern but I think, in the nicest possible way, that approaching it as you are shows possibly a lack of confidence in yourself.

I would be thinking: I know what happened, and I know this person can't do that job. That may or may not come out at interview - mostly likely will, however slippery and lying a character she is. But if she's plausible and gets through and you don't get the job well, that's their problem. But you can't stop them making the mistake if they're going to believe her, so stop worrying about that.

I would be totally straight in the interview. Unless she's openly lied about her job title, then presumably they know you're senior to her. If they specifically ask you about supporting underperformers, just be honest. I know it may seem like you're bad mouthing her, so be very matter of fact, but you can't leave out the big support you've been. If not least to show what a good manager you are.

Then it's up to them. You can only be yourself and do your best.

Fuck her. If she's that bad, it'll definitely come out at some point. Hopefully one or other of you get the job, then you won't have to work with her any more. I'm surprised she hasn't been let go, if she's so bad.