AIBU with regard to giving lifts...

[Whiskeychaser]

Hi, sorry this is so long but I don't want to drip feed.

My dd and her friend, both 14 years olds, go to a club every Friday after school. My dd decided to attend this club and after about 6 weeks her friend wanted to try it out, but because her mum doesn't drive, and because it's quite far away, (about 1hr 30min walking through some not great areas) the only way she can really attend is if I drive her.

I was happy to do this as I'm taking my dd anyway, they're friends and it's a nice thing to do and so I have been doing this for almost 2 years now.

I am friends with the mum too, although we don't see that much of each other anymore as she changed jobs a year ago, and now works much longer hours.

Unfortunately, Friday has become a really busy day for me over the last year, as although I'm a sahm, I have many commitments on my time, and Friday is one that is fixed, and I can't get out of, so I'm generally not home until 5pm.

Club is 18-25 mins away by car due to traffic at that time, and club starts at 6.30pm and goes on until 8pm.

We would need to leave from my house at 6pm in order to allow enough time for the traffic jams we usually encounter.

They live about 1.5 mile away by car, but in the opposite driving direction to the club.
Walking distance is much less though as there is a short cut they can use, which would take them less than 10 minutes, and even the long way around (0.8 miles) would only take them 15 minutes according to Google.

Due to traffic at that time it's a 15 minute detour to pick them up from their house, so this means I have to leave my house at 5.45pm at the latest in order to have enough time to drive to the club.

I'm finding it increasingly stressful to get dinner, etc, sorted within the 30-40 minute time frame this realistically leaves me.

As a consequence, I'm often running a bit late leaving my house, so I may be a maximum of 10 minutes late picking them up, which leaves me even more stressed and rushing to get to the club on time, as I prefer to be there 5 minutes early.

For example, two weeks ago I picked them up (mum came that week) 10 minutes late and parked up at the club dead on 6pm, which realistically meant they were 2-3 minutes late for it by the time they entered the hall.

Over the last 2 years they've only been actually late to class a maximum of 4 times (twice in the last 12 months), but the stress I'm feeling rushing around, or cutting my stuff short in order to not be late for them is really getting to me.

I would say I'm late picking her/them up probably 4 out of every 6 times.

This varies from being a minute late picking them up to a maximum of 10 minutes late and probably averages 4 minutes, and although this only rarely results in them being late for the actual club, it stresses me out nevertheless.

If I'm not outside their house by 5.45pm, I immediately start getting texts asking where I am, which I obviously can't answer as I'm driving, and anyway stopping to reply would just make me even later! Hearing the texts pinging also stresses me out even more.

Seven or eight times over the summer, she walked up to us for short before 6pm, so that we could leave my house at 6pm and I found that so much less stressful.
I know it doesn't sound like much but that extra 15 minutes made all the difference for me. I was much less stressed and we always got there 5 minutes early every time.

Since the weather has got colder and darker, I've been picking her up from her house, and it's just not working for me, and I feel really guilty when I'm picking them up late, so I thought I'd take a leaf out of the MNer book and let them know I was having a problem. I really didn't expect there to be an issue.

In the spirit of this, I sent the mum a text yesterday afternoon and asked her to get her dd to walk up to ours for 5pm on Friday (thinking about when it gets dark), instead of me driving to get her for 5.45pm.

My dd got a text back from the dd almost immediately saying: it's fine they'd rather wait for me to pick them up as it gives them more time at home, and that they'd see me then (turns out mum is coming along too).

I then texted the mum back again saying that that didn't suit me, being late is stressing me out and I'd rather she/they walked here as I also need that extra time myself.
Mum texted me again and said she's coming on Friday too so we can catch up, but that she really doesn't want to walk to me as it is 'miserable weather' outside now, and she prefers to leave home as late as possible.
I texted back and said they didn't need to be here until 6pm then, but that I would like them to come to me in future, as it makes my life easier.

I had no reply to that text, which I sent around 8pm yesterday, until this morning when I had a text saying: 'it's not on, it's really cold and wet now and it will be dark, I'm driving anyway so it makes no difference to me, and is much easier for me, but will put them out, and so I should just pick them up as usual'.

I really don't want to fall out with the mum or cause issues for my dd, as the dd can be quite moody, but I'm pretty hurt that the mum can't see it from my point of view, especially considering I've never before asked for anything in return.

I know the mum works really long hours, and I know she worries about her dd walking in the dark, (even though she's allowed to go out in the dark at other times), but at the end of the day I'm doing them both a favour, and I've never asked for any contribution or anything in return (& wouldn't as I'm going there anyway). Even when the mum comes we take it in turns to buy a coffee, and I wouldn't expect her to pay for mine anyway (that's not why I'm helping them out).
I'm doing it because they're/we're friends, it helps them and is a nice thing to do plus we're going there anyway.

I also always drop them off at their house; I just wanted that bit of breathing space before the club.

AIBU to have asked them to come to me, and how do I handle it now?

I know what I want to say, which isn't printable, but I don't want to say something I'll later regret, and I really don't want to fall out over this, but I also don't want to be a doormat (my New Year's resolution is to be less of a people pleaser).

I've always been a people pleaser and hate saying no, so now I'm wondering if it was petty of me to expect them to come to me.

I'd deliberately misunderstand and reply

Ok, great compromise, so you'll come to me by 5.55 if you'd like a lift to the club and I'll drop you back at your house after.

I completely disagree with other posters that you were wrong to do this by text. It was a good idea since you know you are a people pleaser and therefore may struggle with a CF in person.

You were clear in your text message but unfortunately a CF is a CF whether by text or face to face. You need to stand your ground and reiterate your point back to her firmly and succinctly. Well done for saying no more in the first place, you’re doing nothing wrong and she is taking advantage of you.

You have done it for two years. For the next two years it is her turn.

You are a stay at home mum she works full time

Of course, OP is only a stay at home mum, so her time is of less worth that the CF. The OP must get so bored just lying around all day, compare to working women. 🙄

She doesn't want her daughter walking and tbh I wouldn't in the winter Not the OP’s problem and if she’s than concerned, she can get a taxi. Why should OP leave her own home so early so that the other mum gets more time to sit around?

She is not a cf no one is it's just you have decided to change the arrangement without discussing properly

She is a CF and the OP doesn’t actually owe her any explanations. It no longer suits the OP and she has given the other mother a choice. That should be it.

It's not at all petty of you to expect them to come to you. You wouldn't be a bad person to wash your hands of the situation now. But if you want to give her one last chance, I think you need to make clear, in person, that you're happy to keep taking friend's DD to said club but she does need to be at yours by 5pm. Otherwise you feel under pressure whilst driving and that's not safe for either child. If she doesn't apologise and agree to walk her DD to you, I think you can safely say you have a CF on your hands.

I would reply and say "what do you mean by it's not on? What isn't on? You want to leave your house as late as possible, as do I. I've made the sacrifice for 2 years by rushing to get dinner ready to leave the house to collect you and your daughter so I would appreciate a bit of give and take here. I don't appreciate someone I'm doing a favour for telling me something isn't on, it's a little rude to be honest".

Hopefully that will make her take a step back and realise how cheeky she has been. Her working and you not has got nothing to do with anything. She could have at least said she doesn't mind walking to you because she appreciates that you take them but if it's really bad weather, would you mind picking them up?

Just do that broken record thing of repeating a short , succinct message. Don't get drawn into justifying your decision. You don't need to make her agree with you. Just say something brief like "I can no longer collect (lazy daughter) on Fridays. If she makes her way to my house by hh:mm I can take her to the club." Or don't offer to take her if you don't want to.
This woman is being really rude and will probably complain whatever you do, even if you reinstate the full taxi service. She seems annoyed that you thought you had the right to stop. Her responses are really rude. She should be thanking you for what you've done so far and appreciate of the fact you're going out of your way.

Also remember that you aren't causing any falling out here, if she chooses to fall out with you it shows that the mum is as moody as the daughter.
I think the mum's recent responses show that she's not concerned about you at all. Only about what you can do for her.

it's not on, it's really cold and wet now and it will be dark, I'm driving anyway so it makes no difference to me, and is much easier for me, but will put them out, and so I should just pick them up as usual'.

Saying "it's really not on" to someone that has given your dd a lift every Friday for two years really isn't on.

In the end, you have the power here. You don't have to pick up her dd at her home. Either she co-operates, or she doesn't get the lift.

Rule number 1 with car sharing = don’t share with an ungrateful CFer non-driver.

I moved house to get out of my arrangement. To AND from work EVERYDAY via their kids school for pickup.
I thought I was having a heart attack some mornings running around.
She use to ignore texts too when it suited her. And forget to pay me the pittance petrol money we agreed on.

She started changing my radio channel too.
I think you should just send one text ‘sorry the Friday car share no longer works for me so I’ll just see you there x’ - then block.

Ellmau has it spot on, no more explanations, her DD and she now know they walk to you or no lift. Any moodiness tell them where to go.

A friend would not be ungrateful and demanding - she isn't your friend!

Agree with the vast majority that YANBU at all and that you might want to seriously consider how much of a friend the mum really is.

I think there are quite a few good suggestions on here about how to reply depending on the tack you want to take. In particular, I think BackForGood is right to highlight that it is "stressing you out". As a phrase, that sounds like you are saying it's possible but you don't like it that much and it's something she can argue about ("it's not really that stressful", "it doesn't matter if they're a few minutes late", "it's a little bit of stress to save me from getting soaking wet!"). You need to say you were fudging the matter talking about stress but you no longer have the time for it. Talk about the fact that your time is just as valuable as the mum's and her daughter's and that the trip to their house no longer fits your schedule so if they want a lift they will need to be at your house by 6pm, but (assuming you are OK with it) you will still drive them home afterward.

I'd just keep it simple 'sorry but circumstances have now changed and I'm busy until just before 6 - there simply isn't time to pick you up and be on time for the club. I'm happy to give (your daughter) a lift if she is at mine before we leave at 6 but I'll understand if you want to make other arrangements'

Thank you for all the replies. Lots to choose from , and many points to ponder.

I definitely think there's a bit of truth to the fact that she's forgotten I'm doing them a favour, and that she feels entitled to it somehow.

Since she's changed jobs, we don't see as much of each other as we used to. Previously (before they started at club), it was once a week, sometimes less, sometimes more, whereas over the past year it's more like once a month, and that's generally her coming with me to the club.

Up until she changed jobs, I also used to take her shopping once a fortnight (not the shop I use), so that she could stock up on heavier stuff that she struggled to manage alone/without a car, which again I was happy to offer to do as that's what friends are for.

She also gets most of her parcels delivered to me, (for the last 3 years), as there's often no one at hers during the day, and I then drop it off to her when someone is home. Again, I've always been happy to help, and it's only once a month (at the most) anyway.

I've had some health scares over the last year, which she knows, so I probably also haven't been such a great friend to her as I normally would be as I haven't been as great at texting/keeping in touch as I used to be.

She works odd hours so I also worry about texting her at the wrong time and disturbing her sleep, so sometimes I don't think to text/or I do but I don't send it in case it's the wrong time, and so it feels as though she'll often text me 'first'.

With hindsight, I probably should've done it face to face, but I really didn't think it would be a problem, and tbh, I'm not so good at being diplomatic face to face, as I would find it harder to hide when I'm pissed off (my facial expression always gives me away), and so I would usually rather back down than get annoyed.

I'm more than happy for her dd to come over earlier, or come home with my dd, if that's what my dd really wants, but I don't want to make my dd feel like she has to always have her here on a Friday as they finish early (2.15pm), and my dd has a very full social life (clubs/activities every night) and a wide circle of friends, so I think she sometimes enjoys doing nothing for a few hours!

Also, we've had problems with this girl in the past (last year was particularly bad) where the more time she spent with my dd the more demanding of her time she became, and she then gets jealous when my dd spends time with her other friends (without her there). My dd felt really trapped and suffocated by this and came to me for advice.

I spent lots of time talking to my dd and giving her the confidence and the tools to deal with it, telling her how unhealthy a friendship it was becoming. She followed my advice and put her foot down, talked to her friend and put things in place to help her manage her friend's expectations.
Part of that has been limiting the time they spend together, so I'm reluctant to change that.

If my dd is happy for her to come over earlier or all afternoon then I'm fine with that, but I don't want her friend to start expecting it to happen every single week, and then becoming moody if it doesn't, iykwim.

'It's not on' ... CF of the highest order. Don't explain/apologise. Say in future, you will be departing from your house - insert time to suit yourself - and if they are there on time, a lift is available. If not, they are free to make their own arrangements.
I can't believe she doesn't even pick up the price of a cup of coffee!
I don't drive and am often grateful for lifts - but deal is usually that I walk round to their house, or stand on corner of street until friend is passing that way anyway, so make damn sure I am there five mins earlier! If they decide they're not going this week or make alternative arrangements - well, tough, that's bus/cab for me. And at least reciprocate with the odd coffee or cinema ticket.

I've had some health scares over the last year, which she knows, so I probably also haven't been such a great friend to her as I normally would be as I haven't been as great at texting/keeping in touch as I used to be.

You talk a lot about what you do for the mum to be a good friend, but you don't mention any way in which she shows how much you mean to her as a friend. Does she reciprocate at all?

Just read your last post ... that's not friendship, that's a concierge service!

OP you said "I've had some health scares over the last year, which she knows, so I probably also haven't been such a great friend to her as I normally would be"...erm she should be your friend and check up on you!

Sorry, but you come across as a people-pleaser and she is very entitled. You aren't friends, she's using you!

My circumstances have changed in the last two years I have been taking your dd to club every week. I can no longer pick her up. I will still be taking {insert your own dd's name} to club and we will aim to leave the house at 5.55. If your dd is at our house by then, I am still very happy to take her. I am able to bring her back to your house at the end but I can't fetch her from your house before we set off for club. Up to you and {insert her dd's name} as to what you choose to do

I agree this is perfect.
The onus is now on her to walk or get a taxi to you, a taxi or bus to the venue or decide to give up the activity.
I don't think this person is a friend.

I agree with the others on this thread. Rinse and repeat your short message. It's not on that the mum is taking advantage of your good nature.

You do so much for this 'friend'. What does she do for you?

I'm driving anyway so it makes no difference to me, and is much easier for me, but will put them out, and so I should just pick them up as usual

Dear friend: Although I'm not driving anyway, I'm driving in the opposite direction, so it means at least 30 minutes' extra driving (which translates to extra mileage costs of £X per year) on a day when I simply do not have 30 minutes to spare. I have been put out in order to help Minifriend for the last two years and I'm afraid it can't go on any longer. If you want a lift, Minifriend will have to be at our house by 6 p.m. at the latest, and if you don't want to do that no doubt you'll make your own arrangements.

Sorry, first bit should have been "Although I'm driving anyway ..."

I am always appalled though - and have only really come across it on Mumsnet - by how many adult women seem to find it impossible to say 'no.' Okay, I am not by nature a people pleaser and couldn't care less what anybody thinks of me. But try practising ... it becomes so much easier with time. And stop being so needy - if CFs don't like you, is that a problem???? For what it's worth, I have a small circle of real friends who would move heaven and earth for each other - an outer circle of B-list friends/acquaintances - there's give/take from all but none of us take the piss or make demands.

The more you write, the worse it gets.
Don't allow the daughter to spend Friday afternoons in your house.
Be a role model and show your own daughter that you're not letting them treat you as a doormat.
Be very aware of how much you do for this family and how much they do for you. Would you be comfortable asking them for a favour? Would you word it in the language the mum uses to you?
"it's not on" indeed 😮