Anyone found guilty you think is innocent?

[louise5754]

Lots of crime series around lately.

It does make you think especially ones where people have been accused of murder but there was no body or DNA.

Steven Avery, in America. From making a murderer. His story is horrific.

But sadly not surprising.

The justifications of the jurors ranged from "his family wouldn't be sitting in the courtroom supporting him of he was guilty" to "well he's going to be going to prison when we find him guilty on those other 2 charges anyway, so..."

A fine example of why the jury system is thoroughly bogus.

My opinion is that often, the future of somebody who is actually innocent yet accused is down to whether the defence or prosecution is better at debate and manipulation of the facts.

I think that's a good summary. And good example of why so many rapists walk free. Our system isn't about truth. Not even close.

@AgeLikeWine oh hi Cliff! 👋

I’m not sure about Max Clifford. I think perhaps he had a lot of dirt on a lot of powerful people and they wanted him kept quiet. And then of course he died in prison. How convenient.

I don't know one way or the other about MC, but I 100% believe that there are people who have knowledge of powerful people having done atrocious things (some of them being on the fringes of those powerful criminal groups) who A. shut up about it; B. tell and have their own reputations completely destroyed (whether the allegations are true or not) or C. otherwise tell (or threaten to) and meet a sudden untimely and suspicious death.

As a sub-section of C, I believe there are people who try to expose criminals/criminal gangs possibly in the naive and mistaken assumption that they will be thanked for uncovering something that isn't widely known, but have no idea of the full extent of what they've started to bring to light and the sheer number of high-profile people who are implicated. I would class a certain female journalist in this category.

Equally, there are others where their crimes are widely known (maybe not the full amplitude of them, but the people involved are known to be seriously 'wrong-uns') and those who are aware of it are also aware that it will go far, far better for them if they just turn a blind eye and keep quiet about it. I'm thinking about a DJ, whose horrific crimes were suddenly 'discovered' after his death, when he was well known about by a great many people who feared for their jobs, reputations and lives.

@MyLamaDontLikeYou, I agree. I think too often the role of the defence is presented as 'proving' the defendent is innocent. It isn't. It's about one side presenting their case better, and thus convincing the jury.

i swing both ways on jeremy bamber and michael stone - i’ve read and watched a lot of stuff on both and i’m constantly changing my mind. i think steven avery is definitely guilty - although i don’t dismiss claims that law enforcement planted some evidence to ensure a conviction - but brendan dassey probably is innocent.

David Morris, clydach murders. Massive police cover up

I think Bamber probably did it, but it's not beyond all reasonable doubt for me.

Guy Heinz Jnr, convicted at the age of 27 of killing eight members of his family, including his father, all in the same trailer and not one of them woke up while the others were being killed. Now serving life without parole.

Pretty sure Adnan Syed is guilty as sin but I think there's enough reasonable doubt/fuck ups in his case that it should be retried.

Michael Stone was convicted of the Lin and Megan Russell murders on no evidence. I've always thought he was probably innocent.

One thing Amanda Knox always 'forgets' to mention is that her conviction for lying about the bartender still stands. It was never overturned. She is still a convicted felon.

I personally think the was at the house during the murder. How involved, I'm not sure.

Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey 😡

I don't think Adnan Syed is guilty.

For those mentioning Adnan Syed - who do you think did it then?

Colin Norris who was accused of killing his patients with insulin. There has been new evidence to suggest that the levels found at pm were actually naturally occurring. I was once worked an agency shift with the healthcare assistant who accused him. Something about it just didn’t sit right with me at all. And still doesn’t. Poor man is still in prison and I don’t think he did it.

In cases where the accused are right at the very top and an inquiry is held, of course they could be completely guilty, completely innocent or anywhere in between. However, when you think of what the implications would be if they were found guilty - and just how brave or stupid judges, journalists, inquiry-leaders or anybody else would be to proclaim them guilty.

IF they were guilty of a terrible crime - maybe a murder of another very top-ranking, ultra high profile person - does anybody seriously think they would hold up their hands up and not use all of their power and connections to cover it up and/or have the potential exposer 'dealt with' ?

the only evidence against michael stone was an apparent ‘jailhouse confession’ to someone who was later found to be a known liar. how you can use jailhouse confessions is a court of law to convict a man to life in prison is beyond me. there was talk about levi bellfield apparently being linked to the case but without forensics i don’t think this case will be solved any time soon.

I think Adnan Syed is guilty too. From the afternoon Hae went missing he never called her mobile again, before anyone even knew she was dead. She was missing for four weeks before she was found. Supposedly he loved her and they were great friends. All her friends and family were calling the number but he never once did. He knew she was dead. I think he did it or he was there when it was done and I think he thinks he's served enough time now and he knows there's a lot of holes in the evidence.

Bamber is guilty, I think. He has already had a couple of goes with the Criminal Cases Review Commission and got nowhere. It will be interesting to see if the telly series results in anyone coming forward.

Good article on the evidence against Amanda Knox.

Michael Stone, mostly likely to have been Levi Bellfield. Jeremy Bamber, received a whole life tariff but having worked at the prison, many will say if he just admitted it, he would have been released as he's most certainly "reformed".

At the minute l have been reading about Jeremy bamber and I don't think he did it

@FamilyOfAliens I was going to say Guy Heinz Jr. Even in with my very limited experience it seems completely bizarre and unfathomable that the story concocted by the prosecution could possibly be plausible. He may have been involved but certainly not solely responsible.

One man cannot possibly beat 8 people to death in such a small space without at least one of them waking, escaping or fighting back. Or a neighbour hearing the struggle. The evidence presented by the experts clearly showed that more than one person committed the murders, one person couldn't physically have managed it on their own. I really don't believe he was involved at all but obviously the jury are idiots did.

I'm sure there are others I can't quite recall but I was particularly saddened and enraged by that case.

Margaret Fleming did not have the intellectual capacity to type that letter. She had a written vocabulary of about 100 words said her English teacher.

Whose fingerprints are on that letter ? Eddie and or Avril ? (some say he typed it not Avril). Were Margaret's finger prints found on the letter ? (they should have been if she typed it or was she dead by then ?)

Why so aggressive? I’ve already said it’s clear the carers killed her. It’s just that one piece of solid evidence plus some circumstantial isn’t the strongest murder case ever

It’s a tricky case because even the prosecution lawyer said it could go either way

The teacher helped, I also think the interview they did with that journalist (the one who got told off for giving opinion of you seen the documentary) did for him as it was just such a ridiculous suggestion

If they hadn’t kept the receipt from their trip to London they’d have walked free I think, even though they were obviously guilty that was the strictest evidence that could be used by the jury to convict