Anyone found guilty you think is innocent?

[louise5754]

Lots of crime series around lately.

It does make you think especially ones where people have been accused of murder but there was no body or DNA.

There's no way Amanda Knox could have done it, surely?
Guede's DNA was all over the crime scene and the body. There is no way there wouldn't have been some of Amanda if she was holding Meredith down etc as claimed.

I've always wondered if maybe she wasn't at the house/coming home and heard the struggle and played ostrich.

Of course it's far more likely she was just a kid who got caught in a kafkaesque nightmare of bizarre accusations.

We are watching When they See Us on Netflix at the moment (about the central park rape 5 boys in 1989). It is quite traumatic to watch, in fact during episode one I actually thought I'd have to turn it off it was so upsetting. There was no evidence at all, in fact evidence showing someone else was there was presented as well as evidence proving they couldnt have been there and they were still convicted.

Also just watched The Staircase, whilst with that I am not so sure of his guilt but the evidence was not enough to convict that's for sure.

It really makes me wonder how many innocent people are in prison, especially in the states.

I am not sure about Jeremy Bamber, there is so much conflicting info and it's all biased from one side to the other so I feel like you are never reading facts.

Cases of mums gone to prison for salt poisoning, latter found not guilty. (Doctor found to have read or represent details incorrectly.). Another one was when child had brittle bones but again parents accused. Children event taken into care and although in at least one case when the conviction was quashed they still didn,t get the children back as they had been aprooved for adoption on false info and so now had a new family

Yes. Ray Matthews and his ridiculous comments about Munchausens syndrome by proxy. He did so much damage.

The Staircase is so chilling.
That guy comes across as such a calculated narcissistic person.
No real empathy towards his dead wife, and at times you clearly see his mask slip.

His anger and mocking towards his wife's sister (who is clearly distraught and grieving) is shocking.

What I found odd is that the prosecution went for an active attack narrative. I always thought the more likely scenario was a struggle and her falling backwards as a result.
Interesting fact was that suspect (cant remember his name) was having an affair with one of the producers of the documentary as it was being filmed.

Odd to think when he was making soppy declarations about his dead wife the whole time.

I'm a criminal defence solicitor. Lower crimes in the Magistrates court will often end in a conviction when I believe they were innocent. The conviction rate in the magistrates court is extremely high. They tend to believe everything the prosecution tell them even with massive holes in evidence or technical failings in the preparation of their cases.
More serious crimes in the crown court such as murder or rape - no. Juries are actually more reluctant to convict as they feel responsible for the person going to prison for a very long time. They also really listen to, and understand the seriousness of the burden of proof "are you SURE he did it? Any doubt at all you must find him not guilty"

@anonacfr I definitely think he did it, was so similar to the last lady who died when he was around .
I found him so creepy and smug.
I can tell for certain though , it was definitely not an owl!

Anyone seen Paradise Lost (on Sky On Demand)?
A series of 3 films made by HBO about the murder of 3 little boys in Arkansas in the early 90s. A couple of metal head teenagers were arrested and accused of satanistic ritual killings.

The evidence was so flimsy it was laughable (some of it was literally he wears black and likes Metallica).
They are very powerful raw films (they were allowed access to everything and everyone, including some horrific graphic footage of the crime scene).
Definitely worth watching.

My opinion is that often, the future of somebody who is actually innocent yet accused is down to whether the defence or prosecution is better at debate and manipulation of the facts. It's like a game in so many ways. It's frustrating

Yes. In other countries the court system is about getting to the truth, but ours is just about winning.

@legalseagull agreed. Although the current system isn't perfect I still believe that you are more likely to get the correct outcome with a jury of 12 than a panel of 3.

Out if interest, what do people suggest replace jury trial if it's so bad?

Yes I suspect Cliff Richard is guilty as well, but I don't think he will ever be found guilty in a court.
I suspect there are a number of famous people guilty of paedophilia who we may never know about.

Yet, from another angle, remembering that being gay was illegal back then, and having gay male relatives of the same age: hiding your deviant sexuality, meeting with other deviants and being able to relax in specific, inoccuous premises was not all that rare.

From the 21st Century all that secrecy screams claok and dagger, something to hide and, it being men, paedophiles.

But, again given my own family member who also used such 'safe houses', I can't go with the "there must be many more famous pedos" over "there may be many more still closeted gay men from back then"

Well the girl in Cyprus found guilty of 'public nuisance' for deliberately telling lies about being raped is clearly innocent of the charges against her.

Really a lot of the mistrials seem to involve 'confessions' without a lawyer present or often any video recording of the interview. Usually in these scenarios the accused is vulnerable in some way e.g alone in a foreign country, doesn't speak the language properly, very young or has learning difficulties.

Sally Clark

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Clark

Absolutely tragic.

Bizarrely, I'm not absolutely convinced of Jeremy Barber's guilt. I haven't seen the TV thing that has come/is coming out.
Certainly don't feel it's beyond reasonable doubt that he did it.

Bamber!

Some people think you should have a panel of judges. I’m against this. The benefit of a jury in my eyes is that they are normal people who have never judged a case before. Magistrates and judges often have a “not this again” mentality and make judgements before the case has even started.

I read a lot on the Perugia case a few years ago. From what I can remember, my impression was that Knox had been in the habit of "borrowing" money from Kercher, and that day she'd done it again and Kercher had quite possibly confronted her once she found the money missing from a pencil case (80 euros I think it was). Then whole thing had quite likely turned into αn argument, another party got involved, things got nasty, and Kercher ended up dead. I think there were already tensions between the two as the two women were very different.

Lots of odd little details support this narrative. A witness saw a couple arguing outside the house, with the young woman upset and gesticulating. This may have been a stage of the argument when Knox stormed out of the house during the argument, only to then return for "round two", so to speak.

Knox was definitely involved in the incident, but may not have actually delivered the blow that killed Kercher. She cleaned up though. It was also pretty despicable how she pointed police towards her boss.

Adam Braseel in the US is /was innocent

He ended up taking an Alford plea so he could get out. So still technically "guilty"

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knoxnews.com/amp/1887653001

The 19 year old British woman convicted of public mischief in Cyprus is innocent and the victim of rape. I haven't met one person who thinks she made it up.

@CuriousaboutSamphire It was well known Cliff Richard was gay because he became famous. My mum used to go to his concerts when he was starting out, and everyone knew. He only became closeted when he started to become famous. So no he does not fit that vibe at all.

@Needmorecaffine

In Clydach 4 members of the same family were killed, a grandmother, her daughter (Mandy) and Mandy's 2 young children.

Around 12 months after the murders Mandy's female partner (a former south wales police officer) her partners husband (a south wales police officer) and his twin brother (a south wales police officer and one of the first senior offices to attend the scene of crime) were arrested but never charged.

The husband and wife were each others alibi and a witness provided a photofit that looked very like the brother in law at the scene at the time of the murders. The brother in law was on a night shift and could not account for his whereabouts for 3 hours around the time of the murders.

South Wales police did not transfer the investigation to an independent force even though they were investigating 3 of their own.

As another poster has said above there is suggestion of a massive cover up.

I don't understand how such a terrible crime gets so little national press coverage. In south wales i think the crime is still in people's minds but nationally no one seems to know much about it.

She cleaned up though.

What exactly did Amanda Knox clean up? The room was covered in blood? Other rooms also had traces of blood.

Yes there was no clean up. I think there is a lot of misinformation out there on Amanda Knox. If you actually look at the facts it is clear she did not do it.

??? That is not true, karen

He was a teen heart throb, sold himself as such. For his whole career he has refused to talk about his sexuality and has NEVER said he is gay!

Yes I know he was a teen heart throb. And I also know when he was starting out the comperes introducing him in stage used to make jokes implying clearly he was gay. I am talking about when he was literally starting out.

Yes to Timothy Evans