To think she should follow the rules?

[suchameanie]

I’m preparing to get flamed here I really am!
Anyway, friend has 2 girls. Ever since they were tiny she has let them choose their own outfits, put together any combo they like, wear clothes far too big or small, shoes 4 times too big or so small their toes are scrunched up and even her clothes or DHs clothes.
Fair enough, she believes kids should express themselves. I’m very anal about what my kids wear and I think it gives off a good impression if they are clean, tiny, in properly fitting shoes and clothes, but that’s entirely my choice!
An average day would be her 8 year old daughter wearing red leggings, pink skirt, odd socks pulled up over the leggings, perhaps her mums jumper or cardie and her feet squeezed into her 5 year old sisters shoes. Not a look I’d allow, but not my circus, not my monkeys!
Anyway, my main bug bear at the moment is the kids doing uniformed activities.
Tonight at ballet her daughter had on Cinderella leggings, underneath a swimming costume. When she goes to school she’ll wear some uniform, but often flouts the rules and will wear say a red sparkly t-shirt under her pinafore, or rainbow tights.
They’ve taken a photo of the ballet class tonight to put on social media, and all the students look impeccable in matching uniform, except for friends daughter in her Cinderella leggings and swimming costume.
I don’t know why it annoys me so much, but it does!
My kids ask if they can wear rainbow tights to school etc as their friend does and I refuse. It just makes my mornings harder as they want to match their friend.
My friend thinks it looks quirky and that her DD will probably be a fashion designer, but truthfully she just looks scruffy when everyone else is wearing the same thing.
What are your thoughts?

I don't dress my kids and love that they put different outfits together. I do make sure they are bathed and if there is a uniform that they wear it. I have friends that keep their kids perfectly immaculate and dictate all of it. These same friends complain about how busy they are and how everything is their responsibility blah blah blah. If you are not complaining and your are happy to do it. Then do it, but don't judge others. worry about your own house. Also it is the schools/ballet school's responsibility. Your just do your thing. Be kind. Take your own path.

Also it is the schools/ballet school's responsibility. Your just do your thing. Be kind. Take your own path.
Regarding school/ballet school, there two sets of responsibility:

1. They need to set their expectations and follow them consistently. To do otherwise is silly. Either have a uniform or don't but don't tell everyone the rules and then decide to bend over for whoever decides their child is too unique and special to follow the same rules as everyone else.

1. Parents have a responsibility to kit their children out appropriately in the relevant uniforms. To know the uniform, let their child do what they like and then say 'but the school should be responsible' is a cop out.

I think you need to loosen up a bit OP.

OP I would maybe drop the dance class a message or email saying please could you clarify whether the uniform is optional as my DD is keen to wear her own clothes (that are appropriate for dance)

I wouldn't concern myself with this. Actually, I'd think, "Good on 'em!" Really though, it's none of your business. (As I'm sure you realise.)

Also, remember that we only have set rules in places where it is expected that people will do other things.

But LolaSmiles it surely is the school's responsibility to enforce a uniform if that is what they want.
Or more to the point, it is not other parents' responsibility. The issue here is between the OP's "friend" and the relevant schools. It is nobody else's business.

Ur rulez, ur kidz hun.

actually, yeah my kid, my rules...
But its more cos the school know dont push me on trivial crap after dd was locked in a room and forgotten about last year.
-Insert whole drama here and the school lying and back flipping here-
I wont follow their BS rules if they cant follow basic safety and fall back on loop holes in the law due to the age of the school buildings and wont replace faulty door handles.

You said it yourself OP, and it's still ''not your circus, not your monkeys''

Yeah as pp have said there's a balance - I let ds wear what he wants from a selection of things that fit him and are appropriate for weather; when he will have to wear uniform though, I'll enforce it (even though I dislike them, especially the exclusionary ones that insist on silly money for blazers many parents can't afford and abhor the practice of putting kids in exclusion for the 'wrong' bloody socks etc). It's not a bad thing to know that there are institutions that enforce a dress code and to work out for himself whether he's a fan of that world or not. Dh and I emphatically weren't but he might be!

Letting your kids wear shoes that don't fit is really bad though.

Schools have become so much stricter and more petty with regards to uniform; I do wonder what purpose it serves. Reasonable uniform and dress code expectations I have no problem with but things like detention because you have ankle socks instead of knee high socks for PE is just silly, and isolating/ excluding children because you don't approve of their hairstyle is a genuinely disturbing practice.

I remember being told to remove makeup by a teacher when I was at secondary school in the 90s and saying "yes of course I will, when you remove yours". I got sent to the head of year who just sighed and said "ok" and sent me away! I didn't go in a full face of slap, but I had awful spots and foundation made it possible for me to go outside without trying to hide my face. It actually improved my education as I would focus on my work rather than how awful I looked. I thought the teacher was wrong then, and I still think so 20+ years on. But my point is, today I would have been excluded or isolated, and for what purpose? Who is really gaining from the new fad for being zero tolerance wrt uniforms etc? Because it really isn't the children.

I also thinks it’s a life lesson. Many people have to follow uniform rules or guidelines at least, in their jobs.

All over the world there are countries with no tradition of wearing uniforms but whose citizens seem to cope absolutely fine when they join the armed forces and emergency services or do other jobs requiring uniform. No-one on these threads who puts forward this sort of reason for supporting school uniform can ever explain what it is about British children that they allegedly can't cope unless they've spent their formative years in ties and scratchy polyester blazers.

Another thing I always wonder about on these threads: people who advocate the need to follow the rules regularly fail to follow basic grammar rules - witness posts about flaunting the rules, for instance. Aren't those rules actually rather more important than wearing the right brand of shoes?

“No-one on these threads who puts forward this sort of reason for supporting school uniform can ever explain what it is about British children that they allegedly can't cope unless they've spent their formative years in ties and scratchy polyester blazers.”

Yes it’s a bullshit clutching at straws argument isn’t it? The idea that the girl in striped tights instead of bog standard school issue grey ones will struggle to cope with the world of work because she wore non-uniform items at school, is ridiculous.
If you’re going to argue for uniform at least say something credible to back it up.

The fact is, a lot of people are conditioned to conform and that’s all it is. It’s pointless but ingrained.

MAFIL
Apologies, I thought the not the parent's responsibility meant it wasn't the parent's responsibility to kit their child out appropriately. I agree it's not the job of other random parents to get involved though.

I agree with you that the school/group should be enforcing whatever rules they set. Having rules/uniform and then not bothering to follow them or (in the case of the OP) having rules and enforcing them with the majority whilst letting others do what they want is silly.

But the school aren’t enforcing uniform rules on the OP and others, and not on the friend with the irregularly-dressed children. From what the OP says, the same general reminder emails go out to everyone. Some parents choose to conform to those uniform rules, others don’t. The school doesn’t enforce penalties for non-compliance, it just makes intermittent noises which suggest it’s not a priority.

And presumably if the ballet teacher felt that uniform was important, he/she would have said ‘Full uniform next week as we’re taking official photographs. Anyone who doesn’t dress correctly won’t be in the photo’?

people who advocate the need to follow the rules regularly fail to follow basic grammar rules - witness posts about flaunting the rules, for instance. Aren't those rules actually rather more important than wearing the right brand of shoes?

Pretty daft comparison. People don't get grammar wrong because of a desire to flout authority or express their individuality. They do it because they don't know the grammatical rules - either because they haven't been taught them properly or because they find that kind of thing difficult. As I well know, having taught people grammar for 20 years.

Oh and by the way, it's 'flouting' the rules, not 'flaunting'. 'Flaunting' something means showing it off.

If a parent is against the notion of uniform as a social concept then make that point in an adult way. Consult the powers that be with a valid argument and proposal for change.
Don't use your child as a pawn in your argument with the system. Wear your stripy tights to school dear, I'm proving a point about non conformity. Really? Good one.

Or are people actually suggesting that the six year-old has independently formed the idea that they don't believe in institutions enforcing uniforms and don't agree with being conditioned to conform.

I’m not against the notion of uniform. I see some good in having one for school, making clothing choice simple and no definition of the haves and have-nots by way of the quality or suitability of their clothing. I think polo shirts with school skirts or trousers is fine. I just couldn’t give a toss what tights/socks/coat or hair accessories they wear with them, that’s all. The school photo doesn’t interest me beyond looking at my own kids. I don’t need to see the class all matching each other. I don’t care.
Using my child as a pawn in my argument? Don’t be daft.

witness posts about flaunting the rules, for instance

Oh actually, were you criticising incorrect use of flaunting? (Not really a grammar rule, but hey ho.)

I certainly don’t fear another child’s brightly coloured tights detracting attention from my own child...that’s simply pathetic.

Neither do I pictish this whole thread has turned hyperbolic now

I’m not against the notion of uniform. I see some good in having one for school, making clothing choice simple and no definition of the haves and have-nots by way of the quality or suitability of their clothing. I think polo shirts with school skirts or trousers is fine. I just couldn’t give a toss what tights/socks/coat or hair accessories they wear with them, that’s all
We agree on this. I can take or leave uniform and think it should be simple and properly enforced when places have them. Sadly, I've also been in schools where the 'free spirit / argue every rule / rules don't apply to me and my child' types are utterly incapable of following simple principles and so places end up tightening up as a response.

I think the difference is that i couldn't care about what tights are worn, so there's nothing it be gained by buying rainbow ones over uniform grey ones. The only reasons to send a child to school deliberately not in uniform is either because the parent gains some sort of personal validation/attention/confirmation that they're cool and questioning authority via their child (so it's an ideological decision being played out through the child and the child in turn learns that rules don't apply to them), or they can't be bothered to be the 'bad guy' and so let their child do what they want for an easy life.

For all the quirky/free spirited/who cares what they wear extreme promote how little they care about what their child wears, they seem to care an awful lot about their child not following simple rules. It's just as overinvested in their child's style as the the neurotic anal types who want their child's headband to have the perfect gingham match as their summer dress.

Who cares?

Not great that children are wearing shoes that are too small but not your business!

Her kids, her choice.

If school and ballet have an issue, then they should speak up.

Is the child kind, polite and well behaved? Clothes are neither here nor there (if the child is comfortable and confident in them) but behaviour had an effect on the whole class.
I'd take a quirky dressed kid who tows the line over an immaculate child who is persistently disruptive.