To think she should follow the rules?

[suchameanie]

I’m preparing to get flamed here I really am!
Anyway, friend has 2 girls. Ever since they were tiny she has let them choose their own outfits, put together any combo they like, wear clothes far too big or small, shoes 4 times too big or so small their toes are scrunched up and even her clothes or DHs clothes.
Fair enough, she believes kids should express themselves. I’m very anal about what my kids wear and I think it gives off a good impression if they are clean, tiny, in properly fitting shoes and clothes, but that’s entirely my choice!
An average day would be her 8 year old daughter wearing red leggings, pink skirt, odd socks pulled up over the leggings, perhaps her mums jumper or cardie and her feet squeezed into her 5 year old sisters shoes. Not a look I’d allow, but not my circus, not my monkeys!
Anyway, my main bug bear at the moment is the kids doing uniformed activities.
Tonight at ballet her daughter had on Cinderella leggings, underneath a swimming costume. When she goes to school she’ll wear some uniform, but often flouts the rules and will wear say a red sparkly t-shirt under her pinafore, or rainbow tights.
They’ve taken a photo of the ballet class tonight to put on social media, and all the students look impeccable in matching uniform, except for friends daughter in her Cinderella leggings and swimming costume.
I don’t know why it annoys me so much, but it does!
My kids ask if they can wear rainbow tights to school etc as their friend does and I refuse. It just makes my mornings harder as they want to match their friend.
My friend thinks it looks quirky and that her DD will probably be a fashion designer, but truthfully she just looks scruffy when everyone else is wearing the same thing.
What are your thoughts?

If the ballet school believe perfectly turned out 8yo kids in tutus and hair buns is important then they'd refuse admission to the kid who didn't dress like this.
I agree with you, but the ballet school arent making a decision and sticking to it.

Either:

1. Uniform is an expectation and everyone is expected to follow it.

Or

1. Uniform is not an expectation and everyone can wear what they like / wear any close fitting clothing to allow position correcting

Either is totally reasonable.

What's unreasonable is:

1. Uniform matters and here's our expectations, we expect parents to put time and money into meeting these expectations. We care enough about uniform to issue general reminders about uniform to everyone, even though almost everyone follows it. Oh, but the child/parent who don't follow the uniform (and are really the reason the letter was sent out) can routinely do what they like and nobody will challenge them.

I entirely understand why other parents and children would find this annoying.

@LolaSmiles

They can have the attitude that it's nice to wear the uniform but we're relaxed about enforcing it. That way some parents can buy it if they/they're kids want it and others can do their own thing.

MiniEggAddiction
I've already said that.

If they do that they don't have a uniform policy then. They have a "wear what you like but if you'd like some suggestions then here's our school kit" approach.

And if they aren't going to enforce it then they need to stop sending letters and reminders to parents.

Right now they are nagging and reminding parents about the uniform expectations whilst accepting someone doing what they like.

If it matters then it needs to be expected across the board.
If it doesn't matter then the policy needs changing and they need to stop sending reminders on letters telling parents to sort uniform.

Re the possible impact on your own children of having "nonconformist" classmates - I don't think it needs to be particularly difficult. I always focused on why I felt my children should do a particular thing rather than why others didn't. In my experience, even quite young children do understand that different people believe and do different things. If I told mine that other parents decide what their children do but that we believed that it was best for them to do X because Y they seemed to accept the explanation generally. And if ever I found I was struggling to come up with a reason for my decision then maybe it wasn't that important after all!

Geez mind your own business and worry about yourself

I agree with you, but the ballet school arent making a decision and sticking to it.

Then they need to. They're their rules after all. Perhaps it's as @MiniEggAddiction says and it's not mandatory, but OP is peeved she hasn't got a "perfect" picture for the mantelpiece.

OP's comments about her girls always choosing dresses and never trousers indicates to me an emphasis on a traditionally feminine image, which a row of pink clad girls with matching hair buns provides.

Are the children being free spirited and creative though? Do they choose all the clothes items bought then?

I know a mum like this; she will actively encourage her children to dress in a quirky way "it's all their choice of outfit so creative..blah blah.. she insisted on wearing those sparkly boots with stripy tights that I purposefully bought in Next yesterday haha..etc"

However she has a huge aversion to Slogan tops or anything Disney so that's banned and called Chavvy.

as long as it doesn't inconvenience you there's no problem. Keep on saying 'no' to your kids about school uniform and that's it.

Ballet teachers are notorious for breeches of uniform, IME, but if this one is ok with it, go with the flow. IIRC the only issue for ballet is taking the exams when you have to have the expensive stuff and the proper bun.

I entirely understand why other parents and children would find this annoying.

It means uniform isn't that important. I doubt that she'd be allowed that kind of outfit to dance on stage.

And how annoying as a parent to look in your wardrobe only to find that it's been ransacked.
The clothes you want to wear are screwed up on the floor and covered in playdoh because your 5 yr old wanted to wear them yesterday. Fuck that

When there is a uniform, everyone should wear it. I'm not a fan of school uniform but if you go to a school with a uniform then you should stick to the rules (ditto ballet etc).

I think that encouraging your child to think it's really important for them to be able to express themselves through what they wear or being really anal about them dressing smartly are both bad. We should be encouraging our children to judge less by appearances, not more.

Besides, clothes are just as good at disguising what kind of person you are as they are at showing what kind of person you are. Parents love to think that schools with smartly-dressed pupils and teachers must be schools with well-behaved pupils and fantastic teachers. Not true.

I find it hard to believe that any child would choose to wear shoes that were several sizes too small, surely they would hurt too much? Or much too big actually, how could they walk in them? Re weird outfits, I might roll my eyes at some of them, but uniform is the business of school/ballet teacher etc., and really none of it affects you, OP.

SmileyClare
You're not wrong there.
I know someone who since having children has suddenly become a "free spirit" and part of this is priding herself on having "wild children". The children regularly go a long time between hair cuts / washes, they regularly wear all sorts of clothing options (all apparently chosen by the children) and mud on clothes isn't part of play, it's a badge of honour because it proves how unconventional she is as a parent.

But she's always well groomed in the traditional sense herself, whilst the kids' clothes are Next, Joules etc, and she's quite vocal about how scruffy some children are who aren't as affluent.

I bite my tongue but I'm dying to ask what properties muddy naice mismatched prints and hunter wellies have that muddy Asda/Primark doesn't.

I think this thread has got more projection than a multiplex cinema, to be honest.

Lots of "inverted commas" are always a dead giveaway for me

Projection seems to be a fair popular Mumsnet way of dismissing people sharing their experiences.
The inverted commas demonstrate tone and scepticism. An immaculately groomed adult with all the middle class markers dressing their children in a way to present a quirky/free image whilst using the phrase "wild child" and sharing associated memes from parenting pages is all about their image as a parent, especially when they're quick to comment on how scruffy other children look (usually those without wealth markers)

Some people like to dress their child up in a way that gets them attention, be it trying to present this free spirit look how unique we are in muddy mismatched clothes right through to being desperate for people to pat them on the back in admiration that their child's socks match their headband. It's different manifestations of the same behaviour.

If a ballet school want a uniform then they should set the expectation and uphold it for all. If they aren't bothered then have it as an option and don't nag all the parents.

"Rules are rules" is one of the most ridiculous mantras ever. Where does it take you? Houses are houses. Trees are trees. Grass is grass. Water is water. The fact that someone chooses to make a rule cannot make it sacrosanct; where rules are stupid they should always be challenged, not blindly followed.

Projection seems to be a fair popular Mumsnet way of dismissing people sharing their experiences

I'm not sure how you reach that. Projection is often a very different thing to sharing experience, in my view.

You appear to have taken my comment a little personally, because it appeared directly below yours and you had used inverted commas. It was, in fact, a more scatter-gun comment as the thread is rife with it.

It's a matter of perception, I suppose. People using inverted commas to make stealthy-yet-slam-dunk judgments via the gift of punctuation. Because then, they're not really judging...they're just referencing a popular stereotype and distancing themselves from the implied judgment using the ol' inverted commas.

It depends on the context.

where rules are stupid they should always be challenged, not blindly followed.
Then have a sensible conversation about them and at the end make a decision on your actions and decide whether to attend or not.

I couldn't care less about uniform or non uniform for organisations. Places have them as is their right, just like they have rules. If I opt to attend somewhere then I'm signing up to those rules.

What's stupid is attending somewhere that has rules, being told the rules, continuing to attend it expecting exemptions for anything you don't fancy under some silly idea that following rules you might not choose is "blind obedience".

I used "perfect" to describe the ballet photo OP wanted as I suspect what constitutes a perfect photo of a kids' ballet class to the OP (aesthetically pleasing) would be different to my version of perfect.

NeckPainChairSearch
I see what you mean.
It read like a reply to my anecdote, sorry.

For what it's worth I absolutely do judge that person for their approach. I find it quite false and is part of a trend I dislike where (usually) middle class parents favour an almost shabby-chic, my children are so wild and free, we are so different from other parents image with the longer messy hair, more pricey clothes in a mismatched fashion, and tell jokes about mud and not ironing and a bit of muck not harming anyone^. It seems to rest on a premise that their children are free, unique, quirky, rules don't apply to them etc, but then the same attitude and presentation with less money and without the class markers is described by them as scruffy, unkept, dragged through a hedge backwards, neglect etc.
I feel quite uncomfortable with it.

Yep agree Lola it is the middle class UNIFORM for children at the moment: Long messy hair (esp. boys) purposefully mismatched fashion and the latest trendy make of scooter. Extra brownie points for boys wearing an item of girl's clothing (#we don't believe in gender) and wearing a dressing up outfit with designer wellies. They must be muddy.

Of course this look was creatively curated by the 3 year old child because they are very individual.

The girl is making her own rules. Makes a refreshing change from all the sheep (and anal mothers).

All these wonderfully creative children that go out and choose their own clothes from the shops

I think this thread has got more projection than a multiplex cinema, to be honest.

Lots of "inverted commas" are always a dead giveaway for me

Yup, it's Mumsnet's chronic lower-middle-class anxiety about social class markers and shibboleths manifesting itself, as it also tends to on housework threads.

I imagine the people who keep posting about how, if you sign up to somewhere with rules, you must follow the rules, are the kind of people who get silently twitchy if Sandra from Accounts uses the mug with rabbits that they always use.

I agree with you . Your friend thinks too much of her self and her children. No one cares and they probably just look ridiculous.