To think she should follow the rules?

[suchameanie]

I’m preparing to get flamed here I really am!
Anyway, friend has 2 girls. Ever since they were tiny she has let them choose their own outfits, put together any combo they like, wear clothes far too big or small, shoes 4 times too big or so small their toes are scrunched up and even her clothes or DHs clothes.
Fair enough, she believes kids should express themselves. I’m very anal about what my kids wear and I think it gives off a good impression if they are clean, tiny, in properly fitting shoes and clothes, but that’s entirely my choice!
An average day would be her 8 year old daughter wearing red leggings, pink skirt, odd socks pulled up over the leggings, perhaps her mums jumper or cardie and her feet squeezed into her 5 year old sisters shoes. Not a look I’d allow, but not my circus, not my monkeys!
Anyway, my main bug bear at the moment is the kids doing uniformed activities.
Tonight at ballet her daughter had on Cinderella leggings, underneath a swimming costume. When she goes to school she’ll wear some uniform, but often flouts the rules and will wear say a red sparkly t-shirt under her pinafore, or rainbow tights.
They’ve taken a photo of the ballet class tonight to put on social media, and all the students look impeccable in matching uniform, except for friends daughter in her Cinderella leggings and swimming costume.
I don’t know why it annoys me so much, but it does!
My kids ask if they can wear rainbow tights to school etc as their friend does and I refuse. It just makes my mornings harder as they want to match their friend.
My friend thinks it looks quirky and that her DD will probably be a fashion designer, but truthfully she just looks scruffy when everyone else is wearing the same thing.
What are your thoughts?

I imagine the people who keep posting about how, if you sign up to somewhere with rules, you must follow the rules, are the kind of people who get silently twitchy if Sandra from Accounts uses the mug with rabbits that they always use
Not at all. Ain't nobody got time for that.

There's just a certain maturity about being able to think "I don't like that rule and wouldn't choose it, but it's neither here nor there and I'm not some special case who is above the rules".

If I was in charge I wouldn't choose some of the rules at my school, but part of life is knowing when/how to challenge and accepting not everything runs to my preferences. There is something quite childish in my opinion when adults take the approach of 'but whhyyy? If I can't pick and mix then it's expecting blind obedience'

I think there's something quite childish about thinking that, because somebody wore Cinderella leggings instead of a tutu to ballet once when they were six, they're going to have problems with authority all their lives.

In fact, that kid might have a better idea of when you don't have to follow the rules and when it is essential that you do.

It read like a reply to my anecdote

Ah, no problem

I agree with some of what you say btw, but we differ on others!

I think something like school uniform or an activity which requires a uniform kit is a great leveller.
It ensures no one stands out for what they're wearing, it removes the worry for children who can't afford the trendy brands or don't have many clothes, and it ensures there isn't a focus on anyone's appearance or attire.

Being creative and expressing yourself isn't limited to what colour leggings you're wearing. Expressing yourself through fashion is really an adult concept being projected onto children.

All these wonderfully creative children that go out and choose their own clothes from the shops

Some do, yes. But this is mostly about kids just mixing up fairly bog-standard stuff that many kids own.

My friend's 8 year old does this. She likes animal prints and flowers together so she experiments. Other 8 year olds wouldn't be interested in what they wear (mine ). I don't see the big deal to be honest.

Being creative and expressing yourself isn't limited to what colour leggings you're wearing. Expressing yourself through fashion is really an adult concept being projected onto children.

I'm not sure all kids who mismatch their clothes are expressing themselves through fashion. I think they just don't think about image and that's to be encouraged.

No I'm sure most children aren't expressing themselves- they've just put some mismatched clothes on.
I agree it's important children aren't focusing on their appearance. God knows, there's years of that when they're older.

I was really basing my view on the mum's comment that her children were so creative and individual with their outfits and she thinks her daughter will be a fashion designer one day

Being creative and expressing yourself isn't limited to what colour leggings you're wearing
Very true and in my experience (admittedly with teens) creativity and critical thinking isn't linked to arguing over how unfair they think the uniform rules.

The students who regularly get into repeated situations over uniform and have parents all too willing to sound like petulant teenagers saying "but whhyyy? What difference does it make if my child wants to wear a hoodie. I'm raising my child to challenge authority and not blindly follow rules" are generally some of the most uncritical thinkers in the year group. They're (un) surprisingly fixated on image and think they're exempt from rules they don't like.

Other students who are very critical of authority, have hilarious views on some school leadership decisions, have strong views about a range of social issues and are very astute and perceptive in discussing use and misuse of power etc manage to do this wearing the uniform or pushing the uniform a little like a typical teen whilst correcting it when told to. I often find it's because they are genuinely intelligent, critical thinkers so don't need to argue over trainers to feel like they've won some silly battle.

I agree on that @SmileyClare

I think something like school uniform or an activity which requires a uniform kit is a great leveller.

It levels in someways and exposes difference in others. Kids who are particularly sensitive to fabrics or fit, kids who are too poor to easily afford new, updated or well fitting versions (especially if it's specialist or expensive) and kids whose parents are not organized all stand out more - and suffer whatever formal, negative consequences are attached to nonconformity - when there is uniform that is fairly rigidly adhered to. And since these kids tend to be the ones who are most vulnerable anyway you probably won't hear that much about how uniform rules disadvantage them because they have much less voice than ones like the OP's 'friend'.

I think people should question why they need to force young children to conform. I'd rather kids dressed like this than trying to look like adults. My son used to love wearing his sister's clothes. He grew out of that phase but even now he wears what he likes which definitely defies the norm. It's not because I think I'm a cool, edgy parent. I just don't force my views on my children. They are their own people.

There's just a certain maturity about being able to think "I don't like that rule and wouldn't choose it, but it's neither here nor there and I'm not some special case who is above the rules".

It's also about being able to think "Clearly no-one really cares about this rule since it's not being enforced, so let's help it on its way out".

I think something like school uniform or an activity which requires a uniform kit is a great leveller

It used to be, but I think that argument's out of date now. As a pp pointed out, there are still countless ways that children will stand out for not having the 'right' thing for whatever reason.

It shouldn't be the case, but clothes are so, so cheap these days that most kids could afford to dress in the same/similar clothes to their peers and the differences would possibly be less noticeable. It wasn't like that 30 years ago.

This won't apply to all school uniforms, but certainly a good number of them.

Wouldn't bother me except for the ill fitting shoes.

Makes me smile when I see a child who has clearly dressed themselves proudly strutting next to their slightly embarrassed parent who has decided their are bigger battles to fight.

Also if she wore shoes '4 sizes too big' she wouldn't be able to walk any amount of distance really. What else are you exaggerating?

It’s odd but down to the ballet school and school to enforce.
My mum was a bit like this, didn’t do us any harm but we do all look a bit odd in school pics etc and I’m the absolute opposite with my own kids. Don’t let it get to you 🤷‍♀️

You don't like your 'friend' very much do you?
I can't get very wound up about this other than the ill fitting shoes which is actually damaging.

I agree that it sounds ridiculous, and I also think that if there is some sort of uniformed group (ballet class, school etc) then people should be wearing what they are supposed to wear. That's not for you to police, though, so I wouldn't worry too much.

When a particular uniform isn't required I think it's nice to just let kids wear what they want, as long as it's appropriate - IE not a thin summer dress and sandals when it's snowing, not ballet slippers and a flowing princess gown when you're off on a muddy walk etc.

Is the child going to end up like
A) those people on Mark's floor in Peep Show, when he flung open the curtains as they were on a morning-after comedown and told them to fuck off; or
B) Mark

They sound like a lovely family! What a great mum. I feel the same way towards kids clothes as she does. I love it when kids are alllwed to express themselves, I think it’s so lovely. You sound judgey, uptight and dull.

Shoes aside as I do think it’s important shoes fit congratulations on raising a conforming sheep. I sure the mum has equally complimentary things to say about your children and you.

I couldn’t get past the shoes that are too small part because it made my feet hurt! I have huge paddles for feet and in my younger years tortured my feet by wearing shoes too narrow and ill fitting and it had scarred me for life!!!

@SmileyClare who says they are focusing on their appearance? Maybe they’re just putting on the clothes they like.

I think you answered your question yourself

• Not your circus, not your monkies!

It’s just clothes! Any ‘rule breaking’ will be dealt with by the individual establishment if there is a problem....none of your business.

I think, if you have such a problem with this freedom of expression, that somewhere deep down inside, you might be a teeny bit jealous ?!?

DD2 in particular would throw outfits together that could look odd but good, sometimes yuk sometimes a bit Bonham-Carter. But that was for out of school and non uniform days. At school/dance/Brownies she had to understand that there was a uniform.