To think teacher shouldn’t describe child as arrogant?

[pinkgreenpurpleblue]

AIBU to be uncomfortable with this adjective ascribed to (nearly 13 year old) child?

A teacher once told us that our daughter was 'lively' in class to which I said You mean she talks too much. Oh she said I forgot you're teachers so I can leave out the bullshit, yes she does!

actually I think that answer @thejollyroger gave the students is arrogant. Just because you have more experience and a qualification does not mean you know everything and cannot be wrong. Students should be able to question and debate as teachers are not superhuman and will not always be right.

I was fortunate to go to a school were teachers listened to us and properly debated our questions, If a child is arrogant it would be useful to temper that but if the child queried what they were being taught good to on them. Teaching is also about teaching people to think not just forcing down facts.

It’s labelling which a teacher should never do. Fine to call out the behaviour but not to label or they will become that label. X is naughty is different to X did something naughty. Subtle but quite a big difference and the outcome over time can be huge.

I'm always telling the teachers, yes, thanks, lovely to hear about the good points, but tell us what she needs to improve on. That's what we really need to hear about, to help the teachers help our kids to maximise their performance.

Of course we want to hear the nice bits. But it's actually the more uncomfortable, the slightly more confronting bits, that are going to help us help our kids to do better.

Just because you have more experience and a qualification does not mean you know everything and cannot be wrong. Students should be able to question and debate as teachers are not superhuman and will not always be right.

I think that’s barking, actually. I don’t think I’m superhuman. I think it’s my job, that I am paid for, to mark their work and award it a grade. If they were qualified to debate with me, they wouldn’t need me to teach them. Obviously I also tell them they can take the issue up with more senior staff if they wish.

Maybe asking the teacher to describe individual instances of arrogance would be like asking someone to identify which particular bean in a can of Heinz made them fart?

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Maybe asking the teacher to describe individual instances of arrogance would be like asking someone to identify which particular bean in a can of Heinz made them fart?

What an incredibly, um, evocative analogy. . .

I would be a bit annoyed if the teacher said that after being quite positive then couldn't give examples or describe what they meant. How did you get on with his other teachers? (Sorry if that's already been asked, haven't read the whole thread)

I would speak to your child to see if they can shed any light on why they may have been described this way, were they not with you at the parents' evening? If no clue, then follow it up with an email to the teacher to ask for specifics so you can talk to your child about it.

I am only a volunteer in a primary school but have seen a very academic child talk over a trainee teacher and correct the teacher's spelling. But the child wouldn't have it that you could spell the word two ways, the teacher used co-operate which I agree with when we teach them phonics rather than cooperate. The child was 9.

I backed up the teacher and the child got up from their desk and said I'm getting a dictionary. It was shocking behaviour.

I teach Secondary maths and am lucky enough to have taught some incredibly able children (going onto first class degrees, PHDs etc- higher than I’ve achieved). The ones who achieve the best results take feedback on board and try to improve. The ones who are arrogant always assume they are correct in the way they work- it’s usually worked well for them, they are in the top set, why do they need to do more. Those ones usually don’t get the top grade (A instead of A*, 8 instead of 9). When they get to A level/degree (and it gets harder) they don’t know HOW to improve because they’ve spent the last x years ignoring any advice. They also don’t work well with others as they tend to dominate any group work.
It’s much better to lose the arrogance at year 8 than to carry on and become unstuck at a level/degree. Also better socially.

OP -
You have had a hard time on here because of the way you phrased your first post.
Had you said ‘AIBU to think a teacher should explain her use of the word ‘arrogant’ to describe my son’ most posters would agree with you. As it is you have nothing you can work on with him or discuss.
However, please don’t be ‘that parent’ who refuses to accept that your child has, at best, an unfortunate manner. Teachers don’t say things for no reason as we know it may come back and bite us so we think carefully and often try to avoid negativity.
It may just be that he needs to think about his tone of voice for example or the way he speaks to other students if they get things wrong. Many students who are a bit arrogant in year 7 or 8 are lovely by year 10 or 11 as they just learn how to communicate in a better way. It’s also true that what might be an appropriate way for a 17 year old to approach an issue in a lesson could be perceived as arrogant in a 13 year old.

Arrogant to me would mean, somewhat overestimating abilities, could try harder, attitude/commitment is a bit 50/50.

Its not really helpful to a child because they are unlikely to be able to break it down like that, and would just internalise it as a negative belief. I am sure that many posters had or know people who had comments that stuck from teachers.

So if it were me (parent) I'd just say there were these postive things x,y,z and she/I would also like to see you pushing yourself further in class and what could he do/what would help him do that.

If they don't have ideas make suggestions, you are good at x, so why don't you xx. Whatever it is...answering more questions, volunteering in class, asking the teacher for help, sit with different children. Maybe agree 3 goals. Thats where the teacher could help but its how you phrase the question...what would you like to see him doing more of.

I suppose its hard as the parent as you think well what am I doing wrong and you are not there to see.

I don't think that matters though, he probably just needs a bit of shining encouragement from you to reach his best.

Why don't you do the sensible thing and phone/ email the school and Ask the teacher to explain herself. I have come across so many children that are quite frankly arrogant. Some rude, some disruptive. Some extremely intelligent but arrogant. It might be the way he answers when asked a question, it maybe the way he asks a question. It may well be the way he messes about in the hall at lunch thinking he is cock of the school.
You say the teacher tacked on some positives, what were they? What was the full sentence? That is helpful to know the full context.

I have come across a child being very disruptive and derogatory in their comments towards staff, when parents were called they were very defensive "oh Johnny would never do that, he is a high achiever with beautiful manners". The head then played the recordings of him calling female staff whores etc etc.

Boys in particular at that age are very good at letting teachers, particularly female ones, know just how insignificant and utterly inferior they feel mere women/females to be - a slight curl to the lip, a look, a slight change in tone, a slight flick to the fingers when handing in homework that implies that she's unimportant, all without actually saying or doing something that is enough to gain a sanction on its own.

I'm sure you must have met somebody in your life who, despite being utterly polite, quite clearly thought you were no better than shit on his shoe?

It's fine to be top of the class. It's not fine to make other people feel like shit or tell them, verbally or non verbally, that you think they are pathetic/insignificant/clearly an imbecile.

It sounds as though your DC needs some encouragement to not treat people with distain. Some social skills, as it were - the type that leaves a feeling after an encounter of 'Wasn't s/he lovely?', rather than 'Ewww. S/he made my skin crawl. Arrogant little turd'.

TheTeenageYears
It’s labelling which a teacher should never do.

Even the OP says that is was a description.

For a long time teachers have not been able to say anything negative about a pupil.
It has been prettied up in bullshit language, so much so that reports and general correspondence is meaningless.

Some pupils are arrogant, prettying up the language, isn't going to solve that.

I'm sure that it wasn't nice to hear it, op, particularly if you are used to hearing good things about your child.

But if one teacher has noticed it, then others have too, and it isn't a nice character trait really, so thank goodness someone told you. Now you can be alert to it at home and challenge it if/when you see it.

FWIW I'm not surprised that this has never been reported as a behaviour issue. He isn't misbehaving as such, just being an arse. He won't be the only arrogant 13yo that's for sure.

Just because you have more experience and a qualification does not mean you know everything and cannot be wrong. Students should be able to question and debate as teachers are not superhuman and will not always be right.
This old line again. It's really quite predictable and dull.

It's absolutely possible for parents and students to raise questions or concerns or seek clarification from teachers in a way that is polite and reasonable.

Sadly, too often the "my child should learn teachers aren't gods" / "they should be able to question teachers" approach doesn't translate to polite queries and more often than not goes hand in hand with an attitude of "I can do what I like because my parents have said you lot aren't gods / you can't put my child in a detention for JUST asking a question" (it's never just asking a question).

It reminds me of a time DS's teacher spent ten minutes trying to describe 'lazy' without actually saying the word. He was relieved when I said I was a teacher and he didn't have to avoid giving me a truthful description. Honestly op, unless this teacher is truly malicious, they've done you - and your DS - an enormous favour giving you the heads up now.

I really hope you are not questioning what the teacher said in front of your DC. This would make them even more arrogant as they would see you as supporting their behaviour. The teacher won't have made it up - we don't, it's not worth the shit from parents. Your dc has shown himself to be arrogant - you know what it means. Speak to him - and if he says 'it's not me' etc. It probably means he is!

Arrogant children are the worst type to teach. They don't misbehave and usually get their work done. They usually get lower marks though as they have not tried as hard. I have a Yr 11 form. The arrogant ones (whose parents didn't deal with it) are the ones having intervention to reach their target grades after 5 years of minimum effort as they believe the hype from parents about being better than anyone else.

They should focus on the behaviour that needs to be corrected, not making generalised judgements about their character/ labelling.

If a pupil behaves persistently arrogantly, they are arrogant. If they persistently chat, they are chatty. If they persistently behave well, they are well-behaved. Your habitual behaviour is an indication of your character. There's no getting around that, however unpalatable it might be to some parental ears.

I wish teachers called spades spades more often than not. There are lots of kids whose shitty behaviour and disruptive impacts on others go unchanged because teachers don't feel comfortable telling their parents the truth and expecting them to actually parent their children properly.

It is not about never being able to say anything negative. It is about being able to say what exactly is negative (or positive). Being able to be clear about the behaviour, not ascribing intent to the behaviour.

Often talks over overs = behaviour.
'Thinks they are better than others' = ascribes beliefs

Frequently voices negative comments on teaching style = behaviour
Thinks they know better than teacher = ascribes beliefs

It isn't that difficult to supposed trained professionals.

Be clear on the problem behaviour. Do not assume reason behind it.

Yes, shitty behaviour is shitty behaviour. Be clear about what the problem is.

A bit younger but I remember at about 8 a teacher describing me to another teacher as "totally lazy"

I probably was! But I was so disheartened by that comment and it definitely demotivated me though I didn't know it at the time because I felt like there was no point because I was so lazy. That's the problem with labelling I guess - but if I'd been told that this was lazy behaviour and I was better than that maybe I'd have felt differently

I got a new teacher the next term and my school report couldn't have been more different because I felt so much more positive. I don't think I'm lazy now, I hope not anyway!

Is the teacher a credible person, OP? I agree with @GrumpyHoonMain’s point further up the thread — perceptions of ‘arrogance’ can vary according to the perceived and perceived (cf ‘uppity black woman’ stereotype, for instance). A RE teacher once described me as ‘aggressive’ to my meek, shocked mother at a parents’ evening. I was a shy, cowed, bullied child, but I simply argued my point in RE classes, whereas he expected unquestioning acquiescence to his batshit misogyny. And the idea that a working-class girl should not get above herself.

My main memories of him is that he had been a priest but quit, and was so obsessive about school uniform he used to hide in the shrubbery and jump out as we arrived in the morning to check we had the hoods correctly buttoned on our navy gabardines.