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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be a bit resentful about counting this as annual leave

196 replies

Ceci03 · 10/01/2020 15:38

So I was given an appointment to get a nat. ins. number - have recently moved to UK. It's during work hours. It'll take me about half an hour each way from work, and then however long I have to wait, or how long it takes. Luckily it's 1pm so some of it is in my lunch (half an hour for lunch) but boss says I need to take a half day a/l. I looked it up in the company regs and it only talks about medical appointments or dentists - go in your free time if you can, if not make it up. I asked her could I make up the time by coming in early if it doesn't take too long. She's thinking about it. Just feel my a/l is getting eaten away on this kind of stuff, and that she could be bit nicer about it - have moved from another country to take this job and no accommodation given, no expenses, I had to take a whole day when my furniture came too late for me to get to work that day. Don't mind that so much. But if I'm 5 mins late I have to take it out of my lunch. But she doesn't count if I'm in early - like today I was in 20 mins early. I'm often in early, or would leave a few mins late, but if she's going to be like this, I think I'm going to be out the door dead on time and go for a coffee if I'm in early. Just finding it hard to adjust. I don't think it's the 'company' I think it's just her. Realise how lucky I was with my last boss - she was so understanding of a sick kid, or traffic, or a delayed train. there was never an issue, and so in return I never had any problem staying late or working thru lunch. Work in an office.

OP posts:

Flipper1234 · 10/01/2020 15:40

Your boss is perfectly within her rights. I don’t get paid when I attend doctor appts or any personal appts during work time. Some bosses and companies are more lenient but on the whole, this is normal in UK

Monkeynuts18 · 10/01/2020 15:43

@flipper the OP isn’t suggesting she should be paid, but rather that she should be permitted to make the time up instead of being forced to take it from annual leave.

Your boss is within her rights OP, but if she doesn’t let you make up the time I think that’s a bit crap.

BreconBeBuggered · 10/01/2020 15:44

What Flipper said. It's a PITA when you've given up your own time to work additional unpaid hours and they won't cut you any slack when you ask for a bit of leeway in return. So you have my sympathies, OP>.

Hiphopopotamus · 10/01/2020 15:45

Nope I’m with you OP - flexibility has to work both ways. If I worked with someone who took every five minutes off me when I was late, I would stop any flexibility from my end, start work exactly on time not a moment before and leave on the dot. You can’t have it both ways!

KitKat1985 · 10/01/2020 15:45

At my workplace then yes we also are expected to take leave / make up hours unless it's for an unavoidable medical appointment. I think this is pretty standard.

orangejuicer · 10/01/2020 15:45

I get paid for medical appointments. I think it would be unreasonable for you to have to take this as leave. They should have known your settlement status when they employed you and give you some support.

Mintjulia · 10/01/2020 15:50

I’ve only worked for two bosses in the UK (in 35 years) who would have behaved like this. To be fair to her though, you are new, you maybe need to earn a bit of credit first.

My bosses have always taken the view that they are chilled about a sick child and in return I work lunch hours, turn my hand to anything and can be contacted at the weekend in an emergency. Give & take.

MadameButterface · 10/01/2020 15:50

If you’ve only recently started and there’s already been issues with you being late or not coming in at all due to your personal circumstances (which are not your boss’s problem, sorry) i can see why she’s not inclined to do you any favours wrt flexi time. Do you have to accrue a fair bit of it before you can take it as time off? It’d be a nice favour if she let you take it as flexi but she’s your boss not your friend, and your new boss at that, that’s not a relationship where nice favours should be expected. So yabu to feel resentful.

Original poster

Ceci03 · 10/01/2020 15:52

yeah I think it's unreasonable - I mean I moved country for the job, and didn't get a single hour or minute leeway. And yet she makes me email her every morning so she can note down my arrival time (a couple of times she came looking for me just after 9am and "couldn't find me"). I was probably in toilet or something. It's not even busy. In my other job if you had a dentist appt and you were say half an hour late, or had to leave a bit early that was never "counted". It was felt that it would all 'come out in the wash' and tbh they were getting more off everyone and they knew it. But in this atmosphere I'm starting to go to the toilet and get packed up and ready to leave as the clock strikes 5. TBH I hate it, and I get so stressed if a train is cancelled or the other day when ds was crying and I had to just go, I coudnt afford 5 mins. I think its OTT. Just have to suck it up I guess no point moaning about it but I just haven't come across it before, someone so nit picking. If it's all 'take' then when she needs help or is under pressure or in a crisis its going to be hard to be flexible and stay late or whatever.

OP posts:

Wonkybanana · 10/01/2020 15:56

have moved from another country to take this job and no accommodation given, no expenses

That sounds like you moved at their request. If so they are being completely unreasonable.

If you moved of your own volition then it's annoying but they're within their rights.

QforCucumber · 10/01/2020 15:57

Did you not choose to move for the job though? I'm guessing you weren't made to do that? I wouldn't expect to leave early because Ds was crying? I would expect to take a day leave for a furniture delivery, and I work somewhere really flexible. How long have you been there and how many times have you been late/left early so far?

Mintjulia · 10/01/2020 15:57

Op, if she’s emailing you every day, at 9am, can you take that up with HR. Point out that if you are in the loo or talking to someone or just making coffee, you wouldn’t see an email the same minute. And it’s starting to feel like harassment.

I’d be looking for another role.

Original poster

Ceci03 · 10/01/2020 15:57

Just worked out that I've been in early every day this week so that's 70 minutes "extra". I emailed her at 8.50 every morning to "check in", and was in 20 mins early this morn.
Ah it's just a way of being I guess. I would be more of the idea it's "quality" not "quantity". I notice some people here who are never late, but who spend at least half an hour chatting and getting their coffees. They are in her 'good books' though cos they are not late. Just bugs me. To me its what you do, not how many minutes. BTW I'm in a private office, it's not like it's a public office with people queing up waiting for me. A lot of it could be done from home even. Anyway, will get my head around it.

OP posts:

bridgetreilly · 10/01/2020 15:58

Is there an HR department or someone else you could talk to about this? Because that actually sounds like workplace bullying to me. Not the time to go and get your NI sorted out, but requiring you to email when you arrive and checking when you're at the toilet and so on.

Original poster

Ceci03 · 10/01/2020 16:01

well I guess I'm just comparing. A colleague moved countries to start a job in my 'old' place, and everyone was so helpful and accommodating to her. helping her, letting her go early to let "men in". stuff like that.

No ds was crying cos he didn't want to go to school but I had to just leave him and run out of the door. I couldn't afford to get the next train and risk being 5 mins late.

No she makes me email her every morning so she can note down my arrival time. ( I make sure now to get my computer on asap and email sent straight away as sometimes I might get distracted and forget, and then she thinks I'm late - or lying!)

I'm not a late person - I'm very obliging. Anyway, to my mind she is not doing herself any favours. She has no kids and lives nearby so I really don't think she understands the pressures of being a single mum. Cest la vie I guess. She is "within her rights" - I don't work well with those kind of people tbh.

OP posts:

CuriousaboutSamphire · 10/01/2020 16:03

She is not a good manager. That's it. Crap as it is you have fallen under the management of a control freak / time bully.

You have a few choices from asking her about it directly to leaving for another job!

It's really dispiriting when you find yourself in that position!

cstaff · 10/01/2020 16:04

I don't think she is doing herself any favours carrying on like that. My two bosses would be very easygoing when it comes to appointments or running late etc but they also know that it would work in their favour if they wanted me to stay late or do something at lunch. In a different department in my company there is a boss like yours and the girl who does my job pretty much works to rule because of the way he carries on. She starts on the button and leaves on the button with no leaway. It doesn't encourage you to go out of your way for them if they are going to treat you like you are in creche.

QforCucumber · 10/01/2020 16:05

I do think it very much depends on how long you've been there, she may be asking for the email because for all we know in your first 3 weeks you've taken leave, been late, left early and looked as though you're not really in it, or you may have worked there 6 months and the lateness has only happened once or twice. Are you still in a probationary period or anything?

grisen · 10/01/2020 16:05

In my experience getting the NINO number takes half a day at the job centre, even if you’re the first appointment of the day. I had to be there at 8am and didn’t walk out until past 1pm. Lots of waiting for staff to arrive, queue for printers, etc. As a manager no one has arrived after their appointment because it took too long. Maybe your local one is like that and she’s used to it.

Original poster

Ceci03 · 10/01/2020 16:06

No she doestn make me tell her when I go to the toilet - its that she was looking for me just after 9 a couple of times, and I wasn't at my desk and I got a strong email then saying she couldn't find me, and from now on I was to email her every day so she could note my arrival time. She thought I was late - but I wasn't, I just wasn't at my desk. I'd say I was in the toilet, or getting some water.

OP posts:

Marylou2 · 10/01/2020 16:07

What type of role are you in OP. Also did you move location within a company or are you completely new to the company? Was she involved in your recruitment?if not and she's singled you out for this treatment she might be testing you or not be convinced your the best person for the job.

PanicAndRun · 10/01/2020 16:08

How long have you been working there?

hettie · 10/01/2020 16:09

Wyatt level is your job and how old are you? I may possibly cut her some slack if you are a 20 year old recent graduate with a history of taking the piss....but dear God above this level of micro management is ridiculous. It's also counter to productive in terms of encouraging productivity from your staff team. You have to give people autonomy and the hold them to account over the taks you set them (not how they achieve them but the output and quality). She sound a nightmare to week for

Original poster

Ceci03 · 10/01/2020 16:09

yeah well I've said I'll take a half-day if I have to, I'm honestly not trying to be difficult or take advantage. Often I have been sitting there with nothing to do. She cant delegate very well. She keeps saying how stressed and busy she is but she wont let me do anything, even after a few months when I could - know more what I'm doing now. Yeah, just a crap manager IMO. Annoying but there it is.

OP posts:

QueenOfTheFae · 10/01/2020 16:10

i'm with you completely - I had one boss who was completely inflexible, and I ended up leaving as was sick of it. No recognition for work over hours, skipping lunches to get work done.

I used to sit in the coffee shop until I had to

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