to be a bit resentful about counting this as annual leave

[Ceci03]

So I was given an appointment to get a nat. ins. number - have recently moved to UK. It's during work hours. It'll take me about half an hour each way from work, and then however long I have to wait, or how long it takes. Luckily it's 1pm so some of it is in my lunch (half an hour for lunch) but boss says I need to take a half day a/l. I looked it up in the company regs and it only talks about medical appointments or dentists - go in your free time if you can, if not make it up. I asked her could I make up the time by coming in early if it doesn't take too long. She's thinking about it. Just feel my a/l is getting eaten away on this kind of stuff, and that she could be bit nicer about it - have moved from another country to take this job and no accommodation given, no expenses, I had to take a whole day when my furniture came too late for me to get to work that day. Don't mind that so much. But if I'm 5 mins late I have to take it out of my lunch. But she doesn't count if I'm in early - like today I was in 20 mins early. I'm often in early, or would leave a few mins late, but if she's going to be like this, I think I'm going to be out the door dead on time and go for a coffee if I'm in early. Just finding it hard to adjust. I don't think it's the 'company' I think it's just her. Realise how lucky I was with my last boss - she was so understanding of a sick kid, or traffic, or a delayed train. there was never an issue, and so in return I never had any problem staying late or working thru lunch. Work in an office.

Yet again:
Different workplaces have different requirements
Different workplaces have different levels of flexibility in their hours
What manager A did in company A is irrelevant to manager B and company B.

You keep talking about getting the most from your employees/team, but seem to conveniently ignore that greater flexibility, freedom and relationships come with time.

You clearly dislike your manager and think you know more than anyone on productivity and should be able to do what you like and have the workplace run according to your preferences. The more the thread goes on, the more I find myself understanding why the manager might be wanting to keep a closer eye.

For what it's worth, I'm also a huge fan of flexible working and give&take.

Op, you have not been there long enough to have any goodwill built up. You have taken time off, you have not been there at your desk at 9 when as a minimum you are expected to be at your desk at 9. She sees you already as the crappy employee who gives the minimum. Now you are not getting the work done before set deadlines. What exactly makes her WANT you for the job. You are still new, you SHOULD be going above and beyond, earning goodwill, not overdrawing it...

She sounds dreadful. The having to email her each morning is demeaning.

It's like the person opposite me who comes in and doesn't stsrt work for at least 40 mins cos she is chatting and going to the toilet and making tea. But my boss thinks she is great cos she was in at 9.

So your boss isn't micromanaging everyone, just you? Why don't you reflect on why that is.

@ceci03
Not all employers are like this and anal about every minute. Anyone I have spent time, energy and money hiring from outside the UK is given a courtesy time off to sort out teething issues with moving here in the first place as it can be difficult. Also I have seen that goodwill laid back in productivity and a positive happy work environment. Also if I went to the trouble of a relocation for a person they arent usually someone I want to micromanage and bother. I extend the same courtesy to people moving from any part of the UK as well and it pays off.

OP, I get it. Where I work, we manage our own time. Standard working hours are 9 to 5.30 and we don't really ave flexi timing, but you can stroll in at 9.30 , go to the gym at 11, leave at 4.30, work from home when you're getting something delivered. No one cares. My manager expects me to do great work and be on time for meetings snd that's about it.

You don't need to @ me aroundtheworldyet or pegasus.

Because she’s been here 2 months and her application for NI is just coming up.
How is she supposed to have booked that off in advance?

So the OP just takes the afternoon as leave. Stuff like this happens.

Its probably the wisest idea anyway OP as these kinds of appointments often run late and the last thing you need is to be late back to work after persuading her you can shoehorn it in. Perhaps your manager can foresee this as well?

Also OP, you keep referring to being only 5 minutes late as if it has happened several times but as PPs have said, that is not what flexitime means to most people. You say you are aren't a later person but to me, you sound like a late person who covers it up by deciding that start times are optional! And IMO, unpaid overtime does not earn forgiveness for random lateness. You earn that by showing reliability and good time timekeeping.

Pegasus has the OP said she was relocated by her own company?

lolasmiles totally agree.

At my work we have to be ready to start work at the start time.
We have to sign in on our phone so start time, lunch and breaks are logged to the minute.
This morning I started at 8am. I walked into the building at 7.35 by the time I went to the loo, grabbed a coffee filled up my water bottle had a chat with a colleague while loading my computer (takes 4 minutes to sign into all of the different applications) it was 8am. Signed in on my phone and started work immediately.
Time off for an appointment would go down as annual leave, unless it was medical.
More then 2 periods of lateness in 6 months can be subject to disciplinary process.
More then 2 periods of sick in 6 months is always subject to disciplinary process.
In 10 years I have been late 3 times, that’s using a bus and a train to get to work for a minimum of an hour commute and having 2 kids.
It must be hard to adjust moving from a company that is relaxed about times but I would follow the rules your manager gives you.

OP some companies have flexibility, some dont. Yours doesnt (for your job, your level). Maybe its something you can request later on, but for the time being, you need to make a good impression and if I was your manager, I'd think you're hard work.

Its not a competition with other, more established employees. How do you know your colleague who is apparently in the "good books" isn't a damn good worker who over the years has gone above and beyond? How do you know your manager who leaves at 4pm doesn't log back on in the evenings?

You haven't said you were relocated by the company - so your choice to move here. You presumably applied for the job and told the interviewers you could do the job? Thats all they're interested in. Yep, its great when you have a manager who allows a bit of give and take, but that has to be earned by demonstrating that you're reliable, you're not taking the mick and that you're worth the management time invested.

In your first couple of months, you should be doing as much as you can to create a good impression and foster that working relationship. You sound as though you expect it all your own way.

paranoidmum2
That's great.
In a previous job I could choose to work in the office, or home, or out on different sites as long as the work was done, but that's irrelevant for my current job. They got much more from me as a result. I really miss the flexible hours at times.

But it's neither here nor there for the OP. They have set hours and flexibility in other roles doesn't change the entirely reasonable expectation of set hours at her work.

It's a bit like when people have a thread moaning about their workplace dress code and people say "at my work we can all wear pyjamas because we are valued for our competency not our looks". It's neither here nor there what the dress code is in another workplace when a poster is in their workplace with their expectations.

Thanks bluebell. I'm wondering if she's feeling a bit threatened and wants to put me in my place by showing her authority. That she is the boss of me kind of thing. Just for the record I've done everything she's asked so quick that have been left without enough to do in a lot of occasions which makes it all the more
Petty to have me clocking in every morn. Couldn't be arsed staying late tonight. I mean that's the attitude she is going to get if she insists on micromanaging me so that she will have me asking permission to go to the toilet lol. Maybe she will time me she seems obsessed with unimportant stuff yet complains how stressed she is

My job is strict on lateness. You need to be logged on and ready at the exact time. Twice late and you lose all your commission (obviously there is a little flexibility, if everyone is stuck in the same unexpected traffic etc) breaks and lunches are timed
But we don't have to stay late, everyone is out the door on the dot and we don't take work home with us

I'd be concerned that if you don't have enough to keep you occupied, you may not be as hyper efficient as you think you are, but are missing something you should be doing. Or perhaps it's that you appear to have all this time on your hands and don't know what to do with it, and that's why your manager doesn't rate you much because she sees you doing doing bugger all and not asking for assignment.

Sometimes it is hard for managers though - whenever I give leeway for this sort or thing, I get the whole team asking for similar. So now I have to be more strict because if I said yes to everyone I’d constantly be understaffed.

@LolaSmiles

I've also worked in companies with set hours and I expect I will again.

When I told OP 'I get it', I meant that I understand that she wants to be recognised for going and beyond sometimes (e.g. staying 30 minutes past closing to get a document done) with a little reciprocity (in OP's case being allowed some time to get her NI number). That is not asking for much flexibility, she's not doing this every week. I didn't post my current job to try OP get the same flex, just wanted to show that she is not being unreasonable in hoping for some understanding.

As OP says, it will backfire on her employer because she will just start and leave bang on time and they will get less out of her.

paranoidmum2
I see what you mean. It's good to recognise the extras people do.
I took the OP's comments on extra time in line with their comments about "but I come in and do all this so..." especially when they're apparently staying late to do work, whilst also apparently having almost nothing to do during the working day.

To be honest, I lost sympathy when they made comments about their manager's family situation and their attitude gets worse in my opinion when they've decided the manager must feel threatened by them and so be seeking to put them in their place.

My sympathy lies with the manager here. It's always challenging managing someone who thinks the workplace should run according to their preferences and refuses to separate past and present workplaces.

That is not asking for much flexibility, she's not doing this every week.

But the op has only been there a few weeks. Since October she’s been off for movers she’s been sick her kid has been sick and she’s been late a few times.
So yeah she doesn’t have an appointment to sort out national insurance but from a manager point of view I would be keeping a close eye.

I also don’t understand if op is so productive that she often has nothing to do why she is staying late so often. Maybe look into effective time management and organizing tasks logically so that doesn’t happen

Thx llasmiled am starting to feel like a POS and a total failure reading this thread. Rose789 youist have a very charmed life to have such an almost perfect record. No sick kids or cancelled trains or adverse weather or a dying parent . U must have s lot of support. I don't know how I'm going to manage with such strict hours. I'm moving house in a month or so. Praying nothing else happens in the meantime. i have a bad tooth. Hope I don't get a toothache. I'm so scared.

Tell her straight, that she needs to be flexible you come in 20 minutes early and she doesn't mind that. But if you are a few minutes late she doesn't take into account how many times you have been early or that you don't leave dead on time. Tell her she will get better team work and staff who are more flexible if she is flexible also. X

Yeah, outrage not doing it for you, so going for the sympathy vote now, are we?

ceci
Then you follow the procedure for requesting time off to move house. Work will either approve or not approve the leave and decide if it is paid/unpaid accordingly.

If you are too unwell to work then you're too unwell to work. Again, work will categorise the absence according to their policy.

Eventually work will follow their procedures for absence if it gets to that point.

Ultimately, you've signed up to a job with set hours and have had a number of absences and lates. If you don't feel you can manage with set hours then you probably need to look for a job that has flexible working.

Rose 799 its not me
With the poor time management! The manager complains she is dressed she is so busy. She works upstairs so o don't like to disturb her. Then she gives me work just before 4pm as she is leaving wanting it done before
I go. I could stay late and do it but I've done this in the past but I don't think she even realized I was there late as she was gone at 4. She is unfair and unreasonable imo. She punishes me by making me clock in but then leaves
Me with nothing to do all day. It's tricky. She is too busy to stop and explain it delegate . I think her leadership skills r v poor actualy

I have been working for the same company for 3 years, had 4 different bosses, current one (only for 1 month) is far worse, absolutely not flexibility. Don't expect me to do any OT.

I would go for a coffee instead of starting early. Don't waste your time there if she wants to be so stingy.

That does sound shit, and like the manager isn’t delegating tasks correctly.
When you email her in the morning I would ask for that days tasks on that email. Ask that she responds by email so you have a paper trail. If she gives you a task at 4pm there is nothing wrong with saying you won’t be able to finish that by 5 when you go home but will start it at 9am the next morning and will have it to her by lunchtime or whatever.

Ps: nope no charmed life here I just make sure I leave plenty of time. Sick kids family member illness (I care for my dad and grandma) I take dependency or annual leave depending on which would be most appropriate. Missed trains- most days it’s why I leave early to allow for public transport delays and traffic