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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be a bit resentful about counting this as annual leave

196 replies

Ceci03 · 10/01/2020 15:38

So I was given an appointment to get a nat. ins. number - have recently moved to UK. It's during work hours. It'll take me about half an hour each way from work, and then however long I have to wait, or how long it takes. Luckily it's 1pm so some of it is in my lunch (half an hour for lunch) but boss says I need to take a half day a/l. I looked it up in the company regs and it only talks about medical appointments or dentists - go in your free time if you can, if not make it up. I asked her could I make up the time by coming in early if it doesn't take too long. She's thinking about it. Just feel my a/l is getting eaten away on this kind of stuff, and that she could be bit nicer about it - have moved from another country to take this job and no accommodation given, no expenses, I had to take a whole day when my furniture came too late for me to get to work that day. Don't mind that so much. But if I'm 5 mins late I have to take it out of my lunch. But she doesn't count if I'm in early - like today I was in 20 mins early. I'm often in early, or would leave a few mins late, but if she's going to be like this, I think I'm going to be out the door dead on time and go for a coffee if I'm in early. Just finding it hard to adjust. I don't think it's the 'company' I think it's just her. Realise how lucky I was with my last boss - she was so understanding of a sick kid, or traffic, or a delayed train. there was never an issue, and so in return I never had any problem staying late or working thru lunch. Work in an office.

OP posts:
strawberry2017 · 10/01/2020 21:28

You have received some really good advice on her but you only seem to want listen to people who agree with you.
Yes it's not nice been micromanaged but like others have said you need to build up goodwill
And you don't seem to have the right attitude towards doing this.
Reread some of the posts and actually listen to what people are telling you. Keep your head down, play the game and things will hopefully improve.
But if this is your first job in the Uk and your likely to want to move roles you should really think about keeping them on side as one day you may need a reference and lateness and bad attitude isn't going to help you.

converseandjeans · 10/01/2020 21:35

I think she's being unreasonable as you need the national Insurance number for work. She sounds very controlling.

QforCucumber · 10/01/2020 21:49

You say it should be about give and take but in 2 months employment what give has she seen from you?

And the pp who said 'just get her told she has to be flexible and if you want to start 20 mins early you will' how on earth would that attitude earn you any respect from your management?!

Boireannachlaidir · 10/01/2020 21:50

What country did you work in before?

BackforGood · 10/01/2020 22:13

Totally agree with everything @LolaSmiles has said. Also, more recently @strawberry2017
Why ask AIBU, but only listen to those that agree with you ?

Turquiose · 10/01/2020 23:02

Ffs if you're late then you make the time up. If you turn up before the start time that's your choice. You have a contract with a agreed hours that's the point of the contract. If you don't stick to them that's your lookout.

Shamoo · 10/01/2020 23:03

She sounds like a total knob

MadameButterface · 10/01/2020 23:28

Honestly op you aren’t giving a very good impression of yourself with your lols and your moaning and utter refusal to see how you could, from her perspective, look like a bit of a flake, and calling other people petty and projecting all sorts of ulterior motives on to them. I am getting more and more convinced the manager’s side of the story would be incredibly illuminating and i suspect i’m not alone.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 11/01/2020 08:20

I read the last thread from OP and I can read between the lines. OP has pushed the limits from day 1 so her boss has no evidence whatsoever that she will turn up and be reliable.

I'm guessing, OP, that you have a train timetable that gives you a choice between setting off quite a bit earlier, and being 20 minutes early, or getting a later train & being 5 minutes late, and you would rather get that later train quite a bit to accommodate your family etc. I wonder if you are "5 minutes late" quite often & are effectively trying to set your own working hours rather than working those set by your employer.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like this! Flexible working is a privilege, it doesn't mean being routinely late, it means having some leeway to be late due to unforeseen and non routine circumstances (like a train cancellation) and make up the time.

MotherOfDragonite · 11/01/2020 09:29

Honestly my advice is to leave. Working for people like this is just not worth it. Find another job with a manager who treats you like a grown up. You will regret all the time you waste in this kind of environment!

Newbie1999 · 11/01/2020 10:15

Surely if you’re 5 mins late (which I imagine you are pretty frequently, if your boss has taken to asking you to send an email to clock in), you’d expect to make it up at the end of the day or minus it from your lunch break anyway? I would do this without being asked. And being 20 mins early is your lookout - you are paid to be there at the allocated times. For all you know your manager has had people take the piss with appts/lateness in the past and has had enough of it.

MyideaMy1dea529 · 11/01/2020 10:38

Shouldn't you have applied and obtained your NI number before you started a job in UK
Surely your employer needs your NI number, so that they can pay you correctly

franklymydearidontgivea · 11/01/2020 10:58

Have I missed the response to if this was an inter company transfer? What industry are you in?

Have you spoken with your HR department about the support available to you for relocating? Where did you relocate from?

I'm a bit confused if I'm honest, I don't understand where you and your line manager fit into the organisation, was she part of your interview panel at all, as if not could that have something to do with her current approach with you.

MyideaMy1dea529 · 11/01/2020 12:12

The current company I work for, there is no paid time off for out of work appointments. We can however go to an appointment in our lunch break.

The previous company that I worked for many years was more flexible. However, I often worked extra hours & performed extra duties. So there was some give and take
However, this flexible approach did not occur in the early years of employment !

Your employer is not your friend !
Your employer wants you to attend on time & for you to perform your tasks efficiently

MyideaMy1dea529 · 11/01/2020 12:41

To clarify, if I need to go to a non work appointment during work time

Go during unpaid lunch hour
Or
Book time off as holiday

RidgedPerfection · 11/01/2020 13:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KarmaStar · 11/01/2020 13:36

Firstly,I think you owe Rose789 an apology for assuming she has a perfect life.
Then 're read all the very good advice pp have given you and make a plan moving forward that is constructive and establish a good working practice and see if after a few weeks your relationship with your employer improves.i.e. The advice to email as soon as you are settled at your desk ready to work and asking for that day's work or targets(not knowing your job I cannot be specific).if you don't finish it,notify her and give a time the work will be finished....all this is great advice.
Try to draw a line and start again with a fresh approach.
Most people struggle,don't assume you are the only one having a hard time,instead concentrate on your own life.be positive...don't say "why me?" Say " try me".
Maybe you could get to know some other working mum's from the school you could share the drop off and pick up with to give you more time to travel?
Life can get better,sometimes you just need to change your way of looking at things.🌄

MotherOfDragonite · 11/01/2020 13:55

It is really amazing that so many people seem to think this is normal behaviour from a manager. It really isn't!

Wingedharpy · 11/01/2020 14:10

I can see a combination of things here OP.
Your Manager sounds like she's stressed out of her head and is run ragged trying to fit in all the things she has to do in her working day.
Then, you stroll in, 5 minutes late, again, sit at your desk, do a bit of work, then sit twiddling your thumbs until she drops a boat load of work on you at 4pm, which you now are unable to complete, due to volume, before the end of your working day.
Could you try being a bit more pro-active?
You do need to arrive on time, whether you think this is necessary or not.
When you've completed your work, could you try phoning her/going to her office, and saying "I've finished that last piece of work you gave me Mavis. Is there anything else I can do for you?".
That way, she gets to see that you aren't a slacker, you get on with the work she's given you and you are actively seeking out more work rather than only doing what's asked of you.
After only a few weeks, she doesn't really know you and it takes time to build up trust.
Once you've demonstrated to her that you are a hard worker, I think you will find that she will feel a bit more relaxed regarding her current micro-management of you.
Also, don't think that because she has gone home or cannot see you, she doesn't know what you're up to.
There will be people who will make it their business to tell her.
Good luck - it can't be easy but you both need to get used to working with each other.

NotEverythingIsBlackandwhite · 11/01/2020 14:19

If your contract doesn't state you can operate flexitime then your boss is within her rights to ask you to take 1/2 day's annual leave. The fact that you arrive early is your choice.

She may have thought you were late when you weren't at your desk just after 9 a.m. and, if you were in the toilet, possibly thought that you should arrive in sufficient time to allow time to go to the toilet, make coffee etc and then be at your desk at 9 a.m. and working.

dibdabber · 11/01/2020 17:53

I also think the OP has given the strong impression that she does not respect the job requirements and thinks she should be able to set her own hours (that is what she actually believes) and I think this may be why the manager is dropping work on her at 4pm - to make sure that she does not skip off early. Nothing to do with poor management at all.

BlaueLagune · 11/01/2020 18:03

She may have thought you were late when you weren't at your desk just after 9 a.m. and, if you were in the toilet, possibly thought that you should arrive in sufficient time to allow time to go to the toilet, make coffee etc and then be at your desk at 9 a.m. and working

Heaven forbid that you should need the toilet unexpectedly. If I drink coffee, I need the loo several times. I could get in at 8.50 and go to the loo then, but there would be no guarantee at all that I wouldn't need to go again at 9.05! Thank goodness I work for myself now, I am constantly amazed at the presenteeism displayed by a lot of MNers. What matters isn't whether you are 5 mins late but whether you do your job to the requisite standard and deadlines.

As for needing to go to collect the NI number, if it takes an hour, you should be able to make the time up. If it takes longer, it's not unreasonable to expect you to take half a day's leave.

BlaueLagune · 11/01/2020 18:04

I think this may be why the manager is dropping work on her at 4pm - to make sure that she does not skip off early. Nothing to do with poor management at all

or to prevent her leaving on time.

LolaSmiles · 11/01/2020 18:16

Thank goodness I work for myself now, I am constantly amazed at the presenteeism displayed by a lot of MNers. What matters isn't whether you are 5 mins late but whether you do your job to the requisite standard and deadlines.
I have strong feelings on presenteeism, however expecting people to turn up to work on time and not be absent multiple times on starting a new job is hardly presenteeism.

What I find more bizarre on MN is when posters claim that entirely reasonable expectations (such as being at work on time) are somehow an awful imposition.

If someone wishes to turn up to work as and when it suits them and have flexible hours then they should seek a job with that flexibility, not take a job without that flexibility, act like they have that flexibility and then complain if their work have an issue with it.

VBT2 · 11/01/2020 18:30

I think it’s wise to find another job. I think you and your manager are likely incompatible and it’s just not worth stressing out over.

I’m in agreement with you (although I do see what PP are saying about your track record so far and earning flexibility). Sometimes people are a few mins late and need the odd favour. It’s better to be flexible and keep good people on side, because it’s the quality of the work that matters.

Your manager isn’t like this, she is a clock watcher. Your being early doesn’t count, your staying late won’t count, but all the minutes in between will be watched like a hawk. She won’t change and unfortunately for you, she has seniority.