to be a bit resentful about counting this as annual leave

[Ceci03]

So I was given an appointment to get a nat. ins. number - have recently moved to UK. It's during work hours. It'll take me about half an hour each way from work, and then however long I have to wait, or how long it takes. Luckily it's 1pm so some of it is in my lunch (half an hour for lunch) but boss says I need to take a half day a/l. I looked it up in the company regs and it only talks about medical appointments or dentists - go in your free time if you can, if not make it up. I asked her could I make up the time by coming in early if it doesn't take too long. She's thinking about it. Just feel my a/l is getting eaten away on this kind of stuff, and that she could be bit nicer about it - have moved from another country to take this job and no accommodation given, no expenses, I had to take a whole day when my furniture came too late for me to get to work that day. Don't mind that so much. But if I'm 5 mins late I have to take it out of my lunch. But she doesn't count if I'm in early - like today I was in 20 mins early. I'm often in early, or would leave a few mins late, but if she's going to be like this, I think I'm going to be out the door dead on time and go for a coffee if I'm in early. Just finding it hard to adjust. I don't think it's the 'company' I think it's just her. Realise how lucky I was with my last boss - she was so understanding of a sick kid, or traffic, or a delayed train. there was never an issue, and so in return I never had any problem staying late or working thru lunch. Work in an office.

@Mintjulia “Point out that if you are in the loo or talking to someone or just making coffee, you wouldn’t see an email the same minute.“

TBH the op shouldn’t be in the loo, talking to someone or be making coffee at 9am, if that’s when she starts work! If someone was doing this, instead of at their desk ready to start on time, I would think they were taking the complete piss! Maybe not quite so bad to be in the loo, but definitely not chatting or making drinks!

Does the company have a high staff turnover, by any chance? The only time I've ever worked for a UK company this rigid the staff turnover was VERY high (I got to the 4 month mark before I started looking for another job), and as the management were so incredibly inflexible we all used to leave on the dot at 5pm. One of the main issues was that they would not allow any flexi-time at all; we only had 30 minutes for lunch (utterly rigid, though they were forever going off on LONG "business" lunches that weren't), but the kitchen area was rubbish and a walkthrough that clients came into, and the nearest sandwich shop 15 minutes walk away. The management were useless in many other ways too, and though the company is still limping on, very few people I started with stayed very long.

It's very difficult to make a clear response on this one though; I think if it was something less essential than a National Insurance number I'd not be so sympathetic, but an NI number is pretty essential to work in the UK unless you want to be paying emergency tax forever.

Why is she so micromanaging? Is it her personality, is it a personality clash between the two of you, has she had experience of this before? Is she the one who interviewed you? Since it's a New Year, would it be worth taking a "new slate" approach and playing the game for 6 months? There are some good suggestions from other people on here about how to manage the "email clocking in" system, for instance.

I also hear you, though, on the people being present but not doing any actual work but just faffing about talking at the water cooler. In one previous job I chose to start at 8am but by the time everybody else had come in by 9.30 (their arranged start time) and got settled, I was lucky if I'd got half an hour's work done (small shared office). It got to the stage where I'd sit in the car for half an hour when I arrived and use the WiFi to get some work done in peace...

Why do you not phone or write to the Dept of Works and Pensions to get your NI number? I don't know why you do not have one, frankly, but if you don't I'm sure you don't have to 'go in' - you may be able to get it online. Also why start this thread with, 'So"? Totally inappropriate.

Here you are: www.gov.uk/apply-national-insurance-number

Given in your first few weeks before Christmas you were absent and late multiple times, had a day off for furniture delivery, and now more issues with wanting time off, I'm going against the grain and feel sorry for the manager as she has been lumbered with someone who thinks they can walk into a new workplace and turn up as and when it suits them.

I don't think the manager is handling it well, but I think it's telling that after having multiple issues being late and taking time off, you feel like you're the victim and also have resorted to speculating about how her personal life and lack of kids makes her a less effective manager.
This is one of those situations where I'd be interested to hear the other side I'm afraid.

Unfortunately I have to manage like this and I hate it. There is a big micro managing culture at my place. I can’t be flexible with my small team because clocking in and out is managed by HR from a swipe machine. Obviously I am nice about it though and make explanations. I manage someone with terrible timekeeping and it drives me insane that I have to “deal with” it. But actually he owes the company 3 hours and it will be taken out of his wages at some point as he’s had ample time to make it up yet he chooses not to understand or work his contracted hours.

Historically it’s because people like this idiot on my team take the mickey and it’s hard for managers of bigger teams to track who’s taking the piss and different rules and flexibility for each person.

I really feel for you but I suggest you tow the line. You never know how harshly she is being managed. It could well be a trust thing and you just haven’t got hers yet.

Hi OP, I think there should be more flexibility especially if it seems like others are being treated differently to you.
I would definitely speak to HR about the day you worked til 3.30pm but it was treated as sick, that is so wrong.
I would effectively work to rule, no more getting in early and giving them time if they can't be flexible on occasion.
Good luck, I hope things improve and if not this is a good time of year to start looking elsewhere.

Wow everyone thinking this is normal behaviour from a boss need to take a look at where you work and find nicer companies to work for

I would hate to be treated like this - like a child basically

KaptenKrusty
I don't think the manager is handling the situation well, but I do think that this thread combined with the previous thread that another poster and OP have referred to together paint a different picture to this thread and that picture actually shows the OP has form for taking lots of time off when she's just started a job.

Different jobs have different expectations on hours. Some have flexible hours, others don't. Neither is right or wrong, but it is wrong to go into a workplace and expect it to run how you want it to be, or decide your current manager is rubbish because the new workplace isn't like your old one.

To then go as far to suggest that the manager doesn't understand etc because she doesn't have kids is a concerning attitude as it seems to come from a place of "because I have kids I should be able to have a different set of requirements that suit me". It's precisely that sort of attitude that can end up in flexibility being limited for everyone.

She sounds like a micromanaging bully! I worked for one of those and watched her bully one of my poor colleagues for a year until I managed to make my escape. Her name was Claire. I wish I'd left when I first started the job and realised what a nut she was!

I'm all for flexibility and humanity in the workplace, but do also think that in a new job you have to earn trust and prove that you are capable. Good first impressions and all that. Its not hard to understand that a new employer will want to know they have picked a good person.

I couldn't afford to get the next train and risk being 5 mins late well that's the same for almost everyone with a job. I appreciate its hard with kids but if you have no leeway with transport etc then this is always going to be stressful. But could everyone just turn up 5 mins late for everyday minor stresses? Its not sustainable and means something is going wrong. And being in 15- 20 mins early ready to start at 9am (having been to the toilet and got a drink first!) is just normal!

And all these mishaps look even worse if forward planning and reliability are a key part of of the role.

Yes moving is an upheaval, but things like getting an NI number, furniture delivery, registering for doctors etc can all be researched and anticipated and so I would have either moved earlier, booked annual leave in adavnce where possible or put back the start date until certain things have been accomplished. And I would want to work this out with the job before starting.

Then if I'd shown that I was organised, proactive good at communicating etc, and they could not show any helpfulness or flexibility, then I might have thought them unreasonable picky (and might not have taken the job). Unfortunately OP the way its gone for you does not give a great first impression so at the moment I'd say YABU.

YABU, they could ask you to take it as unpaid leave at their discretion.

Flexi time seems like the fairest solution

Turning up early is your own problem tho. You're employed for set hours and your line manager clearly wants you to work those and isn't inclined to allow flexibility. Working earlier isn't covering those set hours and isn't what they want.

So stop turning up early. Obviously be ready to start on time, but if you're early do go and get a coffee etc.

How are you getting paid and are on the payroll and everything without a NI number?

You get a temporary number and pay tax at an emergency rate.

I get it if you’re in a shop or customer facing.
But being late 2 times in 2 months and talking one sick day is hardly extreme piss tale behaviour by an employee.

Anyway. Who the fuck doesn’t go make a cuppa when they start work. I turn on computer - look at emails and make a brew.

It’s pretty normal.

Mumsnet is mental when it comes to work places. Normal people are flexible.

Given in your first few weeks before Christmas you were absent and late multiple times, had a day off for furniture delivery, and now more issues with wanting time off, I'm going against the grain and feel sorry for the manager as she has been lumbered with someone who thinks they can walk into a new workplace and turn up as and when it suits them.

I don't think the manager is handling it well, but I think it's telling that after having multiple issues being late and taking time off, you feel like you're the victim and also have resorted to speculating about how her personal life and lack of kids makes her a less effective manager.
This is one of those situations where I'd be interested to hear the other side I'm afraid

Me too Lola. It doesn't sound like the manager is managing very well, but OP you need to be looking to get in 10 minutes early or so so that you have time to go to the loo and get your water and are at your desk before 9.

I would also have real concerns about a "middle level" job where the employee doesn't get this. School leavers - I might expect to have to give guidance to, not someone who has been doing the job for 20 years.

If she holds you to it then do the same. My boss didn't give me a Christmas bonus this year because I had a serious infection and had to take some time off. The whole year's crazy good work and masses of unpaid hours was nothing to a couple of days missed.

I have a key role and don't like to delay a deadline so had made all the time back working in bed but when I got that email I downed tools and won't do that again. (And have started looking, of course.)

You don't get treated well at work by martyring yourself.

@dibdabber

Have you ever thought that lots of people can’t afford to move earlier (2 months!?)

I mean Christ! This is mumsnet at its finest.

That's such bad management. You wont feel motivated to give of yourself.
I manage a team and will always support the staff when these things happen. There are times when I need them to give extra for us to meet deadlines and they are always happy to go the extra mile for me - it works both ways and people respond well to being trusted in my experience.

Why the fuck should you have to get in ten minutes early Just in case upon your arrival you might need to use the lavatory !!!!

In two months, how much time off have you had and how many times have you been late?

@dibdabber you’ve never moved countries for a job or had someone who works for you do the same have you

In the real world, companies who are prepared to relocate employees internationally do so because they understand that good employees are their best asset. They see it as an investment and treat their employees accordingly.

I have relocated and have had people on my team relocate. I need my team to be happy. Giving them half a day to get the admin in place so we can pay them is the least a decent company can do.

To all those reading this and thinking I’m insane there’s loads of good companies out there, who value their employees and treat them like adults. Find one. Life is too short!

She took 1 day sick, sorry half a day but it was counted as a full day.

and was late 2 times in 2 months
I don’t think that’s bad at all.

You don't get treated well at work by martyring yourself.
This is very true. Give and take goes both ways if there's going to be a good relationship that helps everyone.

Equally you don't make a good first impression in a new job by being late and taking time off multiple times in the first few weeks.

start looking for another job

I think it makes a difference whether the op has been relocated within the company or has just moved off her own back. I think she would have mentioned it by now had it been at the company’s behest i could be wrong obvs.