to be a bit resentful about counting this as annual leave

[Ceci03]

So I was given an appointment to get a nat. ins. number - have recently moved to UK. It's during work hours. It'll take me about half an hour each way from work, and then however long I have to wait, or how long it takes. Luckily it's 1pm so some of it is in my lunch (half an hour for lunch) but boss says I need to take a half day a/l. I looked it up in the company regs and it only talks about medical appointments or dentists - go in your free time if you can, if not make it up. I asked her could I make up the time by coming in early if it doesn't take too long. She's thinking about it. Just feel my a/l is getting eaten away on this kind of stuff, and that she could be bit nicer about it - have moved from another country to take this job and no accommodation given, no expenses, I had to take a whole day when my furniture came too late for me to get to work that day. Don't mind that so much. But if I'm 5 mins late I have to take it out of my lunch. But she doesn't count if I'm in early - like today I was in 20 mins early. I'm often in early, or would leave a few mins late, but if she's going to be like this, I think I'm going to be out the door dead on time and go for a coffee if I'm in early. Just finding it hard to adjust. I don't think it's the 'company' I think it's just her. Realise how lucky I was with my last boss - she was so understanding of a sick kid, or traffic, or a delayed train. there was never an issue, and so in return I never had any problem staying late or working thru lunch. Work in an office.

If you’re moving from another country. One would hope that your employer would understand that the first couple of months has some ups and downs settling in.
That’s the point of being a caring flexible employer.

That’s why your staff will go above and beyond for you. If you don’t want that. Crack on.

I know that the people who work directly for me feel comfortable and happy and valued and they don’t have to start posts on mumsnet. Oh and they will work above and beyond if it’s needed.

I would be more fucked off if my employee left on the dot when we need extra help. That I would be a bit

Have you ever thought that lots of people can’t afford to move earlier (2 months!?)

Clearly I can aroundtheworldyet. That is why I gave the other options eg of booking leave in advance - to keep some week days free for those kinds of inevitable appointments.

But I don't know what 2 months has to do with it? So glad to MN finest though :)

You have only worked there a very short time and have asked twice for time off already and been late. I assume you had time off over Christmas and I would be wondering if I have made the correct decision employing you especially if this is your usual attitude.

It was your choice to move and the manager has no reason to consider this in any decision. Unless work requests you to come in early this has no bearing on anything.

I would be looking at a discussion with you to pull your socks up and do the job as required or leave before you are pushed.

To be fair when I managed people it was a pita to have them start early and want to leave early - usually to suit the bus/school run/ husband could drop them at that time/ . It wasn't usually because we needed overtime.

@dibdabber
Because she’s been here 2 months and her application for NI is just coming up.

How is she supposed to have booked that off in advance?
How are you supposed to book time off in advance for sick children?

Pray tell. Seeing as clearly you’re the kind of super organised person who can tell in advance when the British government will give you an appointment and when your children will get sick

“Equally you don't make a good first impression in a new job by being late and taking time off multiple times in the first few weeks.”

i agree with this. And op seems very about it. I know life happens and a sick child can’t be helped but being apologetic and acknowledging that it’s not a great start and showing willingness to make up for it goes a long way towards greasing the wheels ime.

Welcome to the working world of the U.K! It is rubbish and I sympathise but lots of company's do this unfortunately. I've worked for two in recent times that expect annual leave for doctors app and anything else outside work that requires you to be away.
It could be that you cannot really 'make the time up' as efficiently as if you were just there the whole day why your boss said no or it could be as in some of the company's ive worked for that don't have this policy, that some people completely take the piss and when it's not a massive company it does actually affect profit.

God I think some of you are very harsh. I actually DO like the woman lol just finding her attitude on this petty and tbh I think it will
Backfire on her. I mean what about al the days I WAS at my desk even before 9? What about all the times I stayed an extra half hour to get a document finished ? She goes at 4pm so never saw that. Maybe I should have been more pushy about pointing it out. One of the days she came to find me just after 9 I had gone down to IT as j couldn't log into my computer. I really don't think at my job grade that I should have to phone her every time I leave my desk? The whole attitude is silly imo. Surely it's about your productivity? E.g. I know for a fact that in my last job even tho it was part time I got a lot more done and was a lot more efficient than some of the full time people who wasted so much time chatting and getting tea etc etc. I didn't have time for all the chat cos I knew I would be off the next day. It shouldn't be about how many hours you sit there or whether you're a few mins late. She actually told me that if I was 5 mins late I should make it up by taking a shorter lunch. She has had s v big turnover in staff wit a lot of people leaving and the one day I spent up in her office the atmosphere was pretty tense. Anyway I think we proprieties are misplaced but there you go . She's the boss of me so.... it's unfair too to judge me and punish me by making me check in every morning I find it demeaning and tbh I think a carrot works better than s stick. If she was more accommodating I would go over and above to please her but I'm starting to wonder is it even worth it. As long as I check in at 9 and take no sick days. even this evening there was a document I hadn't finished even tho she asked me for it before she went home I didn't stay late to finish it. It makes a mockery of productivity really if all you're judged on is your ability to arrive in time and be seated when she needs you? I would rate someone who was efficient and good . I'd go it if my way cos I want to do well. But it's hard when you're knocked back like she does. I think I might be job hunting again soon tho it was really really hard to get this job so then again I will prob be sticking it hot for the time being

I don't think you can really add up 10 minutes here and there to prove you have 'made up' the time. How much of that involves taking your coat off, getting a drink, chatting to colleagues? You need to show you are actually working and would suggest in half hour chunks at least.

@Bluerussian you do have to go in there in person to get the NI number - when I move here it was heaps of hassle they gave me an appointment in a centre miles away from my house at an awkward time -

also posters saying things about how can you work without the NI - you can work without an NI number initially and once you get one your records get updated - if you are from here you obviously wouldn’t have to have ever applied like this but it is very much the case if you move here

So yeah, I guess I'm a pain in the backside really. ?

^^

Yup

What about all the times I stayed an extra half hour to get a document finished ? She goes at 4pm so never saw that.

^

Nope. Employers see only what they want to see.

Play the game, op.

Again, you seem to be repeatedly trying to argue "but I was there early some days..."

In a workplace with flexible hours and flexible start/end times where employees have to work set hours in whatever pattern then being in early and working (not being in 10 mins early whilst you get set up) would be able to be set against appointments and other times.

In a workplace where there are set hours, set starts and ends then if people get there early they don't have to begin working til their start time and should be ready at their start time.

Your whole attitude on this thread and the other one from what I can recall suggests you're someone who behaves how they think the workplace ought to be, not how it is.

Between the comments about her family situation, and things like this:

It makes a mockery of productivity really if all you're judged on is your ability to arrive in time and be seated when she needs you?I would rate someone who was efficient and good .
You sound like you're deliberately missing the point and more concerned with feeling the victim rather than getting used to how the workplace works. It's not about judging punctuality Vs wanting people to be good. Staff have to do both. It's a fairly standard requirement.
There is nothing to suggest your workplace only judges people for their ability to be in on time, but part of working in a team is being where you should be on time.

What's wrong with making up your lateness with a shorter lunch?!

@ceci03 What's struck me about your thread is that you are presumably upset about this and you're trying to understand what you can do to help your situation - otherwise you wouldn't have posted it on Mumsnet. However, you do come across as very entitled.

Here: I mean what about al the days I WAS at my desk even before 9? What about all the times I stayed an extra half hour to get a document finished ? I'm afraid that's rather normal. The start time is when you should be working from - if you get in extra early then that's bonus time for you to get your coffee in, do those random bits of admin a normal day never has time for, that sort of thing. The idea that if you're early you should be praised, that if you stay to finish your task you should be praised even more... I'm sorry, but that's normal (or at least your manager thinks it's normal) and you sound very put out. I suspect this attitude can be "felt" in the office.

Here: She goes at 4pm so never saw that. Maybe I should have been more pushy about pointing it out. She will be hearing things about you from colleagues, though. She'll get a sense of the work you're doing too. Don't track every second you're at the office - if you're early, you're early. If it really grinds you down that you can't "bank this time" then you're going to need to find another way to look at it. Take a book in? Most people won't get in at precisely the right time to clock-in (whether precisely or not) because of buses, trains, all the rest of it. It is your job to manage your time properly so that you are always on time, or early.

Here: One of the days she came to find me just after 9 I had gone down to IT as j couldn't log into my computer. Probably valid, yes, but it sounds like you have an excuse for everything. As your manager, I would be highly sceptical when everything has an excuse.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't think you're this conniving. But you really don't come across well. You haven't been in the company long enough, and, as others have rightly pointed out - you haven't "banked" up enough brownie points to be doing things like using up lunchbreak time. What happens in the first few months, of what is normally a probation period, is extended into the normal work. So I imagine your manager is thinking "if this is what she's like when she knows she has to make a good impression, and is on her best behaviour, what on god's green earth is she going to be like when she's settled in".

This is interesting: Even this evening there was a document I hadn't finished even tho she asked me for it before she went home I didn't stay late to finish it.. Do you mean here that your managed asked you to finish something by the end of the day, and you've not managed to get it done during normal working hours, and you didn't stay to finish it either? It sounds like there's a mismatch of expectations. I suggest that tomorrow you speak with her about why you weren't able to get it done during the day - nicely! - but be aware she may be thoroughly peeved that she can't trust you to "behave" when she's not there.

Your "lucky last boss" sounds like she was royally taken advantage of. Your new manager doesn't take any shit, and I'm afraid this learning curve will be very painful for you if you continue to resist her efforts to show you how most people are capable of behaving in a fast-paced office environment.

I'm sorry to not be more sympathetic. I was hoping to. I've been there with micro-managing bosses. This one, however, sounds like she's seen a bit of what you can be like and has drawn her own conclusion as to what you might be like when you're not micro-managed! She may be wrong, but the only way to prove that is to buckle down a bit and figure out how you're going to make this job work.

I give up.

People, arrive early. Leave on time and give nothing more.
Welcome to the world of shit productivity

I’m wondering how many people saying you should do your admin, take furniture deliveries etc in your own time have done international moves. Dh and I did them several times. There are all sorts of hoops to jump through, bank accounts to be opened, be there for the removal truck etc. A company, which has employed someone from abroad should allow time to be taken for some or all of these activities and not expect them to take unpaid / annual leave. This is normal admin and set up stuff in a foreign country and impossible to do outside of full time office hours.

You sound like hard work OP. Best get a job that has big allowances for the numerous issues that appear to come about simply by employing you.

@Mummyoflittledragon I've only been given time when moving countries if that was a prerequisite for the job that I had to move countries to be able to work there. If I simply applied for a job that any local could do then I'm under the locals rules.

@Mummyoflittledragon. Exactly. See my earlier post.

Life is to short to work for shit employers.

Pegasus
Yes, I also agree with your earlier post, which I read.

chachachargrilled
I get what you’re saying. But it’s rather harsh to knowingly employ, who will struggle to get themselves set up and not give them any flexibility. An employee is far more likely to work well if they feel valued.

Come on you're winding me up. Honestly is this how it is everywhere in the U.K. I don't believe this is normal practice getting me to check in every morning and giving instructions of making up 5 minutes here and there. It's stupid. Wha and just to clarify this woman wworks 8-4 so she doesn't see what time I leave at .if it was incredibly stressful and busy I would get it but it's so quiet I'm often left with nothing to do for hours on end. Well no point arguing some of you just aren't going to see my point but I think if you're gonna g to be a leader it's just not Good leadership to behave this way. My last boss was incredibly kind and understanding and the effect on her team was amazing. I came in for 2 weekends during the summer as it was so
busy. I wasn't asked to buy I wanted to. It's about give and take. If you treat your team well and with a bit of understanding that a person arriving from a diff country is going to have stuff to sort out. I also think so much time is feckin wasted in offices. I'm not in a public facing office so there is no urgent need to run it in such a strict time scale. And for those of you saying you just have to be there and get no credit for staying late or working thru lunch that's soul destroying surely? I thought we had moved in from the idea of more time equals more productivity. It just doesn't. It's like the person opposite me who comes in and doesn't stsrt work for at least 40 mins cos she is chatting and going to the toilet and making tea. But my boss thinks she is great cos she was in at 9. It's messed up. It's about carrot and stick like o said. I would be so ouch more willing and positive if I received that back rather than nit picking pettiness. But that's what I'm stuck with for now unfortunately.

That's what I'm trying to say mummyoflittkedragon. You will get so much more out of your team with encouragement and praise and a bit of understanding than pettiness which will only breed resentment.

No, it's not all UK workplaces, but it is this particular one with this line manager. It is what it is. Give her what she wants. Work your set hours. If you're late, apologise and make it up that day.

OP
you just don’t understand
This is mumsnet.
A parallel universe

Hate managers like this who micromanage. They have high staff turnover and people will just do everything to the letter and nothing more. Honestly I would email her 2 minutes before 9am everyday and be ready to leave by 5pm. Forget about contacting me out of work. And I would only do my assigned duties as stipulated by my contract.