Racism

[Pixxie7]

Does anyone agree with the continuing claims particularly amongst a lot of celebrities claim that the uk is fundamentally racist particularly in relations to Meghan-Markle.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

I'm 63 and think this country is now more racist than at any time since the 70s/early 80s. Maybe it's because people feel more able to voice these thoughts lately or maybe it's because I am spending more time away from big cities. I now live in a mostly white town and there is plenty of low key casual racism.

Can anyone list the things Meghan has done wrong?

Touched her bump
Opened a car door
Got above her station
Been "uppity"
Carried out ritual sacrifice on virgins

@JacquesHammer you've forgotten her latest sin - going bare-legged in January!

You forgot to add that she didn’t wear tights that one time which is way worse than ‘partying’ with Epstein or even killing the two Princes in the Tower hundreds of years ago.

Excellent point on "Good Blacks" vs "Bad Blacks" @joyfullittlehippo. I recall one poster saying she couldn't possibly be racist because though she disliked Meghan she thought Michelle Obama was amazing.

you've forgotten her latest sin - going bare-legged in January!

Sorry - was trying to block it out, it was just too brazen.

I mean Zara Tindall is banned from driving for speeding - that's ok. Open your own door? Burn the witch before the establishment crumbles.

Of course racism still exists in the UK - those who say it doesn't are probably white, are privileged and ignorant to what's going on around them.

It's incredible the number of people who deny racism on threads like these on MN.

malylis — in a way, that's kind of what I'm saying… and yet not. Yes, people who don't think they're prejudiced don't like being called prejudiced, even if they are. Pragmatically, it can be counterproductive to point it out to them in a very bald kind of way, because it just makes them double down and throw up all their psychological defences. They don't want to think of themselves as a bad person, so if you tell them that they're something that they think would make them a bad person, they'll reject it to protect themselves. I've had success with pointing out that, for example, the thing they've said may be based on something that comes from prejudiced assumptions, or has a set of associations they may not have realised it had, etc., stuff that hopefully lets them see and acknowledge the prejudice without having to feel that their core self-image as a Good Person is being attacked. But it's super hard work and I don't always have the energy to do all that, or I don't like them enough to give a shit

I don't think there's much you can do as an individual about the unashamed racists, the ones who might hide it if it'll get them in trouble but who wouldn't feel bad thinking of themselves as racist. If you call them racist they don't give a fuck unless their image might be tarnished.

Yes, the UK is racist. It has to be because every single person is a product of their upbringing and history and so comes with preformed ideas about other people. In short, I think all of us have some element of racism. And sexism. And ageism. Prejudice is rife in all peoples.

One of the side effects of the press being controlled by middle aged white men is that they get a greater voice for their prejudices. Their coverage is racist. It is sexist. It can also be ageist. And their targets tend to be people unlike themselves. It would be hard to think "straight outa compton" or "niggling" was anything other than thinly veiled racism tbh.

MM is mixed heritage so takes the racist flack. She is a woman and so takes the sexist flack (see how she is held responsible for Harry's behaviour).

Some people don't like her because of her black heritage. Some people don't like her because she's American. Some because she's a woman. Some because they don't like her actions, such as the SA interview. Some for a mixture of these reasons.

For many, the reasons why are hard to unpick. Why do people find gentle and calm Kate to be good - perhaps because we have a prebuilt template that those features (typially the features desired in white, upper class wives) to be good? Why do people struggle with bold and outspoken Meghan? Perhaps because those features have typically been undesired in women and people of colour because it makes us harder to control? So they have seeped, unbidden, into a societal template of what makes a good royal woman and what makes a bad one.

See also, how the template of a succesful business man seeps into our perceptions of who is good at their job and who isn't. We see smart dressed people who speak loudly and with confidence as being good at many jobs for which those attributes are not really the right tests of performance. Man typically get easier performance ratings than women - more often given the benefit of the doubt. This then happens even more so for people of colour (especially women) if they are in positions of power.

I don't know whether I like Meghan or not - and I don't know to what extent my opinion on her is affected by my own prejudices. But I can see that she was always in an impossible position because there is no person on which she could have modelled her approach to royal life.

If she acted exactly like Kate and was quiet, observant, shy then this would have been totally at odds with her stage in life (i.e. much older than Kate was when she started in the firm) and her background, incuding her Amrican upbringing. An abandonment of who she was.

So she acted like she is, confident, bold, outspoken and in this has been compared unfavourably to Kate and to the our template of royal women.

An impossible choice, regardless of her intentions.

I’m not being goady, but the people insisting Meghan hasn’t been a victim of racism: have you genuinely not seen all the comments calling her the N word, calling her monkey, talking about packing her “back home to Africa”, etc?

To be fair, I absolutely believe this has happened and exists, but I haven't personally witnessed this, because I live in a little bubble of non-racist people, and don't read any racist media.

@joyfullittlehippo

I fired someone at work for making a racist joke about a service user (made in private inside our building, so nobody external would have known).

In one of the incident witness reports, the person stated that they didn't believe the employee to be racist.

As a matter of fact, I'd had a performance discussion with said employee's supervisor and manager just three days before the incident, and I commented that if we hired an ethnic minority, they'd be fired in a week, because they'd have said something. Both agreed with me. There were a constant stream of low-level 'only joking' comments.

In the course of the investigation, I learned that during their probation, they drunkenly hurled racist abuse at a member of the public whilst representing the company. And were not fired for it.

They got the shock of their life when I fired them for the 'lesser' charge.

I have since dropped the term 'mildly racist' from my vocabulary. It's not a helpful definition for categorising a person - maybe useful on an incident by incident basis. It's a luxury term, used only by white people.

I mean Zara Tindall is banned from driving for speeding - that's ok. Open your own door? Burn the witch before the establishment crumbles.

Re: my comments about Harry being the previous 'chosen one' - likeable, relatable, down to earth.

You get the same with Anne. People seem to have cast her as the 'acceptable' one to like. Charles the adulterer, Andrew feckless even before the trafficking, Edward invisible.

But Anne was caught speeding on the same stretch of road Zara was.

(plus how thick and entitled do you really have to be to get as far as three speeding convictions, and not then mind your speeding, on a road where your own mother was caught?)

Oddly, I'm a white male, married to a visibly Asian women. Our neighbourhood is pretty much 100% white.

The racism she/we get isn't so obvious. Extreme on one occasion (being spat at) but other than that it's being stared at, poor customer engagement, inexplicable avoidances, and 1001 circs when I'm left wondering " was that because of..?" with no real answer.

My intro to racism UK.

I don't doubt there is a racist element in this ( and all other countries) that have been racially abusing her online. That sort of person sadly exists everywhere, had she been white, upper class she still would have got some element of abuse online as did the duchess of Cambridge. What I'm saying is that I don't think the vast majority of her detractors dislike her because of her colour, more because of her arrogance in coming in and expecting to change the ways of an institution that has functioned perfectly well without her input for years. The preaching about issues like climate change and then the sheer hypocrisy of flying all over in private jets hasn't helped either. But this constant idea that if you criticise the behaviour of someone of colour you are definitely a racist is absolute bollocks in my opinion. ALL people are equal therefore should be praised and criticised in equal measure.

@StarbucksSmarterSister I totally agree. My children now can't go to certain pubs because they've been beaten up and they get swastikas drawn on their stuff at college. I've been yelled at in the street much more recently. I'm white but Jewish and I don't feel safe

But @pigdogridesagain how do we know she expected to change the institution? What real evidence is there that she intended to change vs she wanted to remain true to herself and now allow herself to be changed (for e.g.)?

And all members of the RF change it in turn. It hasn't remained static for hundreds of years. Each member has had an influence to a greater or lesser degree. Diana changed it and for the majority was praised...

I think a lot of racism in the this country is excused because "it's not as bad as it used to be" or "other countries are much worse". Both those things, though, can be true and there's still be a problem in this country.

@joyfullittlehippo I have to say I was a bit when William and Kate visited a girls' school in Pakistan and said women's education was something they felt passionate about. I'm sure nobody in the RF ever said anything about women's education/empowerment until Meghan came along!

The "Good Black" point is an excellent one. The people who rip into Meghan, are the same ones who declare how wonderful Doria is. Subtext being, Doria is a good black because she's in the background, and knows her place. If she'd wanted to move to the UK, she would've suddenly become an uppity " bad black"