Racism

[Pixxie7]

Does anyone agree with the continuing claims particularly amongst a lot of celebrities claim that the uk is fundamentally racist particularly in relations to Meghan-Markle.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

Mumsnet is a bubble of white privilege and middle class. You can not have an educated discussion about race on here because those who actually understand how this country is racist get shut down as "sensitive" or "playing the race card". My advice, accept that if you are white then youc ant really give an accurate opinion of racial issues in this country. Sorry but that's the truth.

With regards to Obama, have people forgotten the fact that people like Trump questioned whether his birth certificate was even genuine? Ted Cruz wanted to be Republican nominee and didn't have to justify being born in Canada.
The media were always using African American in their descriptions about Obama. He could have achieved peace in the Middle East and being African American would be considered his defining feature. I don't follow politics that closely but I got the impression that he mentioned his family and upbringing in Hawaii periodically.

I've read on MN that Meghan uses US based publicity advisors rather than UK ones and that is why her actions may sometimes be misinterpreted by people in the UK.

Really? Try being a Jew in most Arab countries, a black person in Russia, Chinese in Indonesia etc. Some countries actually have laws that openly discriminate against minorities races/religions.

I didn't say there weren't worse countries, and interesting that you had to use developing world authoritarian regimes to prove how "good" we are

I am how little flak Beatrice's fiancé has come under for having a very young child (2 years old iirc) and joining the RF. No woman would have that fact glossed over

My advice, accept that if you are white then youc ant really give an accurate opinion of racial issues in this country. Sorry but that's the truth

I think part of white privilege should be listening when people of colour tell you there's an issue.

If you're white and middle class - so the assumption you're reasonably educated - there's no excuse really for being obtuse.

I don't know about it only being developing countries, easyandy101- not great being a Jew in France, an Arab in Scandinavia or Chinese, black, Korean etc in Japan...

I'm white and live in London. I always thought that London being the great multicultural city that it was some how it was better here but the last couple of years have shocked me. Since the Br**it vote people seem to feel they can now be more overtly racist than before.

The press has had it in for Meghan since the beginning. Barely concealed racism all along.

@AraGrand
If your daughter is actually of mixed heritage I feel sorry for her having a mother who doesn't understand the complexities of racial issues in this country.
Your immediate go-to response to my first post on this thread was "I disagree that there has been racism against Meghan and I disagree that the UK is racist."
Heaven forbid your daughter has to go through anything like mine went through at school

I could muse on why for the next 24 hours, but I can't actually put my finger on the why.

It's pretty clear to me. But you are either woefully obtuse or deliberately goady

Your reasons for liking Kate = her stereotypical English Rose qualities.

Your reasons for not liking Meghan = stereotypical Black Woman bolshy, over confident, loud etc.

Both are bullshit stereotypes but some people still think they are accurate.

*I think part of white privilege should be listening when people of colour tell you there's an issue.

If you're white and middle class - so the assumption you're reasonably educated - there's no excuse really for being obtuse.*

Except, in my experience those types of people (white, middle class) are the most ignorant and racist. Yes, in order for white people to actually understand white privilege (which links into institutional racism) they need to listen but they won't because they are too busy being defensive and talking about the "one Asian family that lived on their street" or saying "they don't see colour".

I think people (specially on MN) also need to take the chance to learn about intersectionality, which would easily stop the "Whataboutery" that so ever so prevalent on Mumsnet.

I have a carribean family next door to me. They've not experienced any sort of racism.

How on earth can you possibly know this? Why are you speaking on their behalf? This is the sort of thing that gets by goat: just because you've not experienced racism/can't or won't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I loathe the ‘Dont see colour’ phrase

And ive seen a number of thread where something...a t shirt for example...has been criticised for being racist and a number of posters jump in to say that anyone who complains about racism is racist themselves, otherwise they wouldn’t have seen it

@FriedasCarLoad reading your comment I realised that I have experienced racism, but I haven't ever registered it as racism. I suppose got used to it that I just ignore it.

JacquesHammer very well said! Bravo!
Others have expressed similar earlier in this thread too.
For me, it's the instant dismissal of the problem that annoys me. Like it doesn't really exist, or I've got a chip on my shoulder if I dare mention it.
Up thread, other PPs with a partner/spouse belonging to an ethnic minority have described some of the issues very eloquently indeed. Its heartening seeing some people are able to support the racial challenges faced by their DH/DW/DC so unswervingly and show a full understanding of, in particular, subtle/polite racism which can be a nightmare to explain to those who've never witnessed it.

GreytExpectations - I'm really interested in what you're saying. Certainly the most overt examples of racism I see on a daily basis (I live in an area which has a long history of racial tension) are from obviously less educated people.

I guess the more educated are more adept at hiding more abhorrent views?

'Im really interested in what you're saying. Certainly the most overt examples of racism I see on a daily basis (I live in an area which has a long history of racial tension) are from obviously less educated people.

I am saying that institutional racism is what is most prevalent in the UK at this time, in my experience. By educated, I don't mean academically I mean educated on the social issues taking place- you can't get this education form sitting in a classroom, you would need to go out and speak to people and look for it. White, middle class people tend to bury their heads in the sand and assume unless the here the N word or the P word that racism doesn't exist. This attitude is found on Mumsnet a lot.

I think the UK is generally racist, yes.
Can't comment on Meghan though as don't follow celebrities.

ime racism denial being a middle class thing is more of an echo chamber thing. People surrounded by people like them and thinking that's average

I think the way MM is treated is a perfect example of how this country is racist.

What amazes me actually is the number of people who say with certainty—without concrete proof and without actually knowing any of the people involved—that Meghan is controlling, manipulative etc to Harry. He's a 35 year old man fgs. Yes, 35 year old men can be manipulated and controlled, I'm not denying that. But we just don't know!

I suspect people have this sort of strange protectiveness towards him due to having seen him 'grow up' and like to project whatever fantasy they have wrt his personality unto him, leaving Meghan as the de facto villain here.

I can't stand Meghan and harry, they are both incredibly irritating. The colour of her skin is not the reason i dislike her, it's how she comes across in interviews and her entitled attitude. I feel exactly the same about her annoying white husband

told I need to 'smile more' which is the standard criticism given to Black people in the corporate world who don't affix a grin and make everyone feel comfortable.

I hadn't realised this was a race thing. I've heard it from a female POV and from a disabled POV. Maybe it is an "other" thing.

He basically gets told to "stick to rapping" and patronised as if he's incapable of understanding politics, despite being an intelligent man.

I follow Richard Marx on Twitter. His feed is full of this too. Wasn't Gary Linaker told the same. Not at all uncommon for celebs to be told to stick to their celeb talent. It would be interesting to see if it happens more to non-white celebs.

the UK isn't fundamentally racist

But it does have institutional racism doesn't it? The police service is one example. Many say the educational system is affected too. And now we have a racist PM so.....