Racism

[Pixxie7]

Does anyone agree with the continuing claims particularly amongst a lot of celebrities claim that the uk is fundamentally racist particularly in relations to Meghan-Markle.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

Of course there is racism in the UK. If you're white and you think there isn't because "I've never seen it happening" you're just ignorant.

I think there are lots of people in the UK that are fundamentally racist, yes.

I'm not sure about racism towards MM though. I think the fact that she is an American celebrity is the issue. Imagine if she had been a british non-celeb? I can't imagine there being as much negativity towards her.

I do really like her, I was a massive fan of suits before they started dating, and I loved the character she played!

The comments about Meghan perhaps 'not knowing her place' have a point.

The royal family is an institution that has a clearly defined role. Someone new can't (shouldnt) necessarily come in to 'shake it up' or modernise it off their own bat. To start with they need to fit in and toe the line. Once established they are then in a position to make changes. Some of their money does come from the public purse and they need to respect that. That does not mean it gives the public or the press the right to hurl abuse at them.

And what people seem to forget is that racism can be very SUBTLE. It's not always about shouting the "n" word and the "p" word in the streets.

The grime artist Stormzy, when he speaks out on politics, has been dismissed and vilified in the media, a lot more than any other music artist or celebrity when they voice their opinions. He basically gets told to "stick to rapping" and patronised as if he's incapable of understanding politics, despite being an intelligent man.

This treatment of him is subtle racism.

@SigridTheHaughty

I think that's a really good approach to take. I think we have to all admit that we have unconcious bias as uncomfortable as it is to think we might be racist at least we can then start to challenge those bias and be reflective.

Which is why we need to be more honest about it. If everyone thinks being a racist is about commiting hate crime then of course you're not going to accept someone challenging you.

I've experienced racism in the UK, both violent and abusive towards me, and others.

Nevertheless, the UK isn't fundamentally racist, it is seen as immoral to be racist so it's mainly people of low morals who do this in the current generation.

There are elderly people who hold to the tribalism of bygone days, but that's quite a different thing, applies to people of many nationalities not just British and is largely harmless unless you are looking for offense.

Meghan is often criticized for stuff that Kate is praised for.
For example the media were very critical of Meghan touching her bump (was called an attention seeker) but Kate wasn't criticized for this.
Every time Meghan crosses her legs or wears wedges the media says that she's broken royal protocol but Kate is never criticized for this, in fact she's praised for the shoes.
Back when there was no Meghan, Kate was often criticized for her lack of work history. Meghan is never praised for having worked before becoming a royal.
I have never met Meghan but I suspect that she has a lot of energy and wanted to get stuck into charity work quickly after marriage. The RF obviously have a lot of protocol and processes (can't make an announcement if William has news etc) and she's not happy quietly smiling while Harry leads the way. She would get a lot less hassle if she followed Kate's lead and shut up but she seems a lot more definite about what she wants to achieve (what earlier posters call pushy, not knowing her place etc) Harry is clearly besotted with her and framing this as being controlled is unfair.

I have a caribbean family next door to me. They've not experienced any sort of racism

I find that hard to believe. But suits to back up an argument as online can’t always be proved or disproved just most will know that it is utter bollocks

Of course the UK is racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, disabilist, homophobic... Every country has this problem to different degrees

I thought Barack Obama was mixed race. As with MM.

I could be wrong but I dont recall him stating he was black. I appreciate his wife is black, and describes herself as such.

I dont know or need to know/care about MMs relationship with her father

Surely denying half of your ethnicity, or denying someone the half of their ethnicity is.... racist?

@ohprettybaby
Because your neighbours have said they haven't experienced racism it doesn't exist.
Firstly I wouldn't necessarily discuss with my neighbours because some of them are racist but wouldn't admit it.
As a black woman born in the UK I can tell you it's gotten worse in last 2-3 years.

Studies show if you have a non white British name, you are less likely to get a job interview, less likely to be promoted, have worse health outcomes (eg have to wait longer for treatment, more things get missed), less likely to be voted for, more likely to be convicted, more likely to have a longer sentence for the same crime etc etc ie most aspects of life that involve interaction with any system or company are harder.

So I dont think it's that helpful to say things like 'Britain can't be racist as I've never seen it's when hard data says you are wrong

I am white so haven’t ever experienced racism so I don’t know how racist this country is in general BUT I have been shocked by some things people I know who I would consider to be intelligent and reasonable have said on occasion
Whether that means we are generally racist as a nation I’m not sure

I wouldn't say Meghan was welcomed with open arms either. The number of ridiculous stories about her as soon as she got together with Harry, the amount of negative threads on this site, speculation that she was 'wrong' for the royal family because she was a 'commoner', had been divorced, wasnt British etc is hardly welcoming

@58Peterspotter
Yes I said that. Me Monty27. Your point is?

Fallof — exactly, I feel like we have to work out how to let people see and, in a way, forgive themselves for having, their own prejudiced tendencies, because it wasn't our fault we were programmed with these tendencies. But it's absolutely our responsibility to realise we have them, to realise we're doing harm, and to battle them.

When racism (which is, obviously, an awful thing) is positioned as a thing that automatically makes you an awful person, of course people are going to react angrily and defensively when someone tells them they've said/done a racist thing. But British society, which is the one I know as I grew up in Britain, has a culture that, if you grow up in it, will implant invisible prejudices in your head. Otherwise perfectly nice people grew up societally programmed with prejudiced ideas, and if told they're being prejudiced they'll be deeply hurt and angry because their idea of a prejudiced person is of a terrible person not at all like them, and they probably won't change.

None of which makes it any easier when you're on the receiving end of it… 😖

All countries are racist to a degree and the UK is far, far less racist than most countries.

I think MM has been treated ok, she comes across as quite antagonistic in my opinion and I don't think the UK press is very kind to anybody, regardless of race, they just like to cause drama.

@Pixxie7
Aragrand@ I agree I don’t like Meghan because I find her very false, it’s nothing to do with race. I didn't like diana for the same reasons.
Why did you start this thread if you don't believe racism exists and only with people who support you?
Your attitude is definitely intolerant...

This thread is a total joke. Ffs you can dislike Meghan for whatever reason you choose, (and her and Harry have shown poor judgement this week imo) but you can't deny she's experienced significant racism. The tabloids and their comments sections have been appalling. If you don't believe me just have a scroll through the DM. Britain is inherently racist. Those who say they've "never seen it" do you realise how fucking privileged you are?! Just because YOU have never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist!!!! There is too much white fragility around on MN- people talk about racism / structural racism and others (presumably white with no lived experience of day-to-day racism) leap in to deny that racism is present. Why would you do that?!! Don't take it as a personal accusation against you! It's like a man saying that misogyny is made up / just in our imaginations. Men don't see daily misogyny because they don't experience it, and they never have to think twice about the things we women do all the time- like walking home in the dark clutching our keys like a weapon, or avoiding the empty train carriage, or avoiding the underpass. As in these examples, racism is exactly the same. It's everywhere, everyday, across the UK. If you've never had the misfortune to witness or experience it then you are privileged indeed, but please do not negate or shutdown the experiences of millions of people by dismissing racism as non-existent or not prevalent.

Barack Obama has often talks about his mother and grandparents when has he or Megan denied their white parentage

But they are not white they are mixed race/dual heritage and have both had racist comments made towards them

Megan's mistake was possibly wanting to modernize and institution that cannot be modernized because profoundly anachronistic.

Royal supporters just want to see the members of the royal family behaving in a standard, predetermined way, as they have always done for centuries. But society is changing, has been doing so for the last couple of decades, and many might be wondering what's the point of still having this institution around.

Having a mixed race child doesn’t mean you can’t be racist

Yes! My own mother (white with no education) thinks white people are naturally more intelligent.

@AraGrand
In what world is a 38 year old mother of three with a huge fortune and a private education "vulnerable".
Your tying yourself in knots to prove that although you don't like Meghan and can't explain why you're definitely not racist.

I don't think you can call an entire country racist, as that's tarring a whole nation with the same brush. There are definitely racists (of all kinds) out there, but it does not mean everyone is one.

My dad is a racist and it gets on my tits as he married my mum (Asian immigrant) but says that 'she's different' when he goes off on a rant about immigrants coming to the country. They split up a while ago (not because of this) but he's definitely amped it up- more so since Trump came into power (who he loves- also gets on my tits as in his eyes the man can do no wrong).

What I find is prevelant is casual racism. Whether that is founded on ignorance or just the person is a bit of a twat is to be seen.

My favourite experience is people asking me 'where I'm from'. I was born in England, I am English. When I say that, the question then changes to 'you know what I meeeaann'.

Yes, I know you are meaning you are a twat who can't get the hint that where my mum is from has no bearing on where I am from, which is England.

Normally when I repeat that I'm English they get the hint and drop it. Or the death stare works. One of the two 😁