Racism

[Pixxie7]

Does anyone agree with the continuing claims particularly amongst a lot of celebrities claim that the uk is fundamentally racist particularly in relations to Meghan-Markle.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

I'm not sure why England is singled out, racism happens in every country in the world. It's inherent human nature. And if you want to compare, England is pretty mild to a hell of a lot of other countries.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

No she wasn't. Just look at this thread. People dislike her for not being Kate. People dislike her for not showing her baby seconds after birth while bleeding and feeling vulnerable. People don't personally know her but claim she is controlling. I don't kniw, she might just have given Harry the confidence to have a louder voice to say what he has always thought. As an outsider from another european country I have been disgusted by how she was en is being treated by the English press and online.

@AraGrand you don't like MM because she's too confident? I would think being confident would be a positive. I don't see why she should conform to traditions, she married Harry not the family. She was confident before marriage, so why should she change. And she probably is so 'bolshy' to cope with the racism.

There is racism in the uk. It doesn’t have to name calling for it to exist.

I’m white and my children go to a very white middle class school. There is one Asian family in it. I know both parents very well and they are very high in there professions - both work for the NHS. Both lovely and engaging people. Yet at any social event at school they get ignored because people just won’t approach them to the point they just don’t go anymore. Racism does exist.

However I don’t think every body not liking MM is racist.

After the new update I just think both of them sound very immature. Telling the world they are stepping back from the royal family on instagram - come on ...

He’s spat his dummy out and she likes to be top dog so off they pop!

I just don't like her ok! Lol.

And yet the word that came to mind when you criticised her was one that’s almost exclusively used by anti-black racists.

That's it in a nutshell. British racism is so subtle and insidious that even racists don't realise they're racist, and they blithely use language with strong racist connotations while trying to claim they're not racist. It's almost funny, in a way.

This country is racist, and anti-semitic and Islamophobic. It gives a platform to people like Katie Hopkins, who manages to stay just within the bounds of the law by choosing her words carefully when spouting her bile in a national newspaper. At the other end of the scale, we have the likes of the knuckle-dragging EDL, who are openly Islamophobic but the party of government appears happy to have the support of their members when it comes to elections.

And we have people who criticise Israel's expansionist policies in Palestine, not because they believe that the Palestinians have a right to live in their homeland but because Israel is founded upon Judaism, and therefore can never be in the right.

I've heard all this shite too often. I've heard it from clients, I've heard from my SIL and her vile husband, I've heard it from neighbours and even (much to my shock) from a colleague.

I very much hope that as society becomes more mixed, and generations grow up with BAME schoolmates, this will change. But it won't be in my lifetime.

I don’t think I’m really qualified to comment tbh - I’m white and wouldn’t have had the experiences my non white friends have had. Anecdotally is say yes - but that’s from speaking to friends and acquaintances who’ve experienced it. And actually post Brexit it’s become far worse - not just for BAME UK citizens and residents but for EU citizens too, mainly Eastern Europeans I know.

I think lots of people like to pretend it doesn’t exist - in the same way some men tell me sexism doesn’t exist anymore .

I’m sick of being accused of racism because I don’t like her. It’s getting tedious

Should we treat them differently then?

I find it best to treat people according to their needs, not presume that they are no different than I am.

I’m white and my children go to a very white middle class school. There is one Asian family in it.

That's part of the problem imo.

When I moved from London to my small Sussex town, there were 3 BAME families out of a population of approx 14k. Anyone less than about 40 who grew up here may well have had minimal contact with people of other races until they reached adulthood, so they'll have had no reason to question the prejudice around them.

When kids of all races grow up together, people from other heritages won't seem so "other" and hopefully racism will die out.

@missyoumuch

This is an open discussion and I have freedom of speech. Just because I did not grow up in the UK, it does not mean that my opinion is not valid.

I think as a society we have to change our ideas of what being racist means. For many ideas the idea of someone being racist is a white supremist with a skin head and membership to the kkk, when thankfully that exists less but a different form of racism still exists at times. Its not just about violence and heckling on the streets.

Think of it like feminism. Women in this country have equal rights yeah? But we can still feel the impact of stereotypes and our fathers, sons and brothers would never feel that they are sexist yet we can see the impact else where such as the lack of female ceos and impacts on female outcomes.

There are still startling differences that show we arent there yet. From boardrooms to prisons, to those detained under the mental health act to television programmes theres a massive over representation of certain groups and we have to question why that is.

For the last 7 years there has not been a single female bafta nominee for best director, this year theres not a single non white nominee either. Its a good example of clearly being unrepresentative, and im not saying we should nominate people to fill quotas but surely we should be looking at why when film courses wildly report 50:50 male female that we see such different outcomes?

There are a lot of racists in the U.K. as there are in every country. It’s fuelled by fake news, poor reporting and scaremongering. Some areas have more racism than others. I would never say a country is racist as there are a lot of people that aren’t and I don’t think it’s fair to brand everyone the same but it would be foolish to minimise the amount of people that are. As for Meghan there are people who dislike her for not being a white British person but there are also people who dislike her as the wedding came round very quick with a cost to the tax payer followed by a move of house and renovation at a cost to the tax payer, her pregnancy announcement came very quick so she had barely worked before taking maternity leave and her family just started to grate on everyone. So much drama in such a short time. They then lecture the public but haven’t been value for money. It’s not surprising people dislike them when they are waiting in line for a food bank hearing about all this in the press. I don’t dislike them but I can see why people do. I do agree the money spent propping up the royal family in luxury could be better spent

@Chloemol that shows how little you understand racism. How do you know all candidates were treated the same? Loads of underhanded comments are made to people of colour that most white people either

Sorry clicked post by accident
They either totally miss the comment or just go along with it. I heard a friend being told that she was foreign after she explained she was born in England. Funnily enough not one person involved in that conversation corrected that. That was racism but everyone there would not classify themselves as racist. So all of you who say your neighbours or colleagues don’t experience racism, how do you actually know this?

UK is fucked. Good on Harry and Meghan.
I'm no royalist but these two are brilliant 😊

I think if you're white, it's impossible (and highly offensive) to say that the UK isn't racist. Racism is so steeped into our society - at an institutional level rather than an individual level often - that it is far, far, far from a level playing field. And I think using the example of MM to make a judgement is bizarre. How likely is she to be stopped and searched, for example?!

Fallout has it right, we can see the effects of racism in society in the distribution of skin colour in award winners and universities and board rooms and prisons.

Racism isn't just telling people to go home, it's also not promoting someone because they other person is better, whilst not acknowledging the fact that your definition of better may not be truly objective.

Take recruitment, because this has been done. send out the same cvs twice with false names. Only the name on the cv is different. One that feels "white" and one that doesn't. Guess what, the probability of being invited to interview depends on the name. Bet all of those recruiters will say they are not racists.

overt racism, which depending on who you mix with you might never see

subconscious racism which you won't be aware of is everywhere and that will only ago away once people can start to recognise it exists and take time to make slow descisons

I think the Harvard had some really interesting tests you could do to assess your subconscious bias. If you are sure you never exhibit any racism, give it a go!

implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

It is indeed racism. It's sun reading uneducated electorate and don't start me about racism and sexism within the parties. Institutional racism is rife everywhere.
It's all fucked up. I applaud them

@AraGrand can't believe you called MM uppity and yet you're not racist! Your posts scream all the ism's to me.

Theres a lot of covert racism in the UK.

LakieLady agree completely. There's an awful lot of racism AND misogyny on this thread - comments about how Meghan Markle ought to 'know her place' - what place, exactly?

"You could be forgiven for thinking she had a mediterranean complexion"
"She's a bit too uppity for me"
"she lacks a bit of grace and humility"
"She's bolshy....too difficult and arsey"

All of the above comments are yours, AraGrand. They speak volumes about your knuckle dragging attitudes. You hate a women YOU HAVE NEVER EVER MET because she's not 'demure' and a bit too....'mediterranean' looking. And yet you actually think you aren't a racist?

UK is fucked. Good on Harry and Meghan.
I'm no royalist but these two are brilliant

Ok

@AraGrand, you say you're not racist. From reading your posts ,I disagree. "Uppity"? Really?? I bet you say you're "tolerant" of other races too, and think that's further proof of how non racist you are...

@Pixxie7 - examples? It's been my lived experience my entire life so examples could fill several threads. Of the top of my head:
Overt racism - walking on the street with a friend minding my own business and a group of white men in a car trying to run us off the pavement whilst screaming "fucking black monkeys". That was pleasant. Finding 'wogs out' sprayed on your parents garden wall,

'Less' overt: ignored in shops, roughly 50% of the time when I eat out with Black friends our orders are "forgotten". Never happens when with white friends. A white colleague asked me the other day if I struggle as a single mum. I'm not a single mum but she told me she just assumed I was. Another colleague sent me a text one weekend asking if knew where he could buy drugs for a visiting friend. I work in an all White team and am regularly told I need to 'smile more' which is the standard criticism given to Black people in the corporate world who don't affix a grin and make everyone feel comfortable.

I could go on but it's all a bit tiresome. You'll hear countless white people saying the U.K. isn't racist, there are just a few idiots everywhere, they have a Black friend who has never experienced racism. And let's not forget the whataboutery: "Black people can be racist too" and "Well I'm white and I've faced racism from all the Asians in my area who look down on me because I'm not Muslim.."