Racism

[Pixxie7]

Does anyone agree with the continuing claims particularly amongst a lot of celebrities claim that the uk is fundamentally racist particularly in relations to Meghan-Markle.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

Minou123

I watched it, it was very interesting, I guess the difference between him and my husband, apart from different countries, is my husband was brought up by a white mother. His father was black but died when my husband was a baby and his family were in the caribbean so my husband only knew his white family. I think that must have been confusing and isolating. Trevor Noah obviously had huge admiration for his mother but I think my husband's experience with black/mixed race women was more when he got girlfriends and his daughter so he seems them as strong, beautiful and successful. Don't know how he ended up with a ginger!

My DD is like a younger MM colourwise. She loves it as wherever she goes they want to claim her as one of their own e.g. Spain, Italy, Greece, Egypt, India. Everyone except Caribbeans!

Racism is evil.

I've not rft but got to the part about the word 'uppity'. As far as I knew, that word meant someone who thinks very highly of themselves/arrogant.
I have today been educated to understand this word has racist connotations that I never knew about.
I once watched a video at university that I really wish I could remember the name of. It included a clip of a white lady walking up to a black lady and playing with her hair and saying how interesting it was to touch etc to show what many black ladies are experiencing and how it's not ok. I've seen many people do the same to my niece's beautiful curls and never thought about how it might make her feel. Again, this video educated me. If anyone might know the name of this video please let me know.

Actually it was a black lady playing with a white lady's hair. I thought that's what I had written. Anyway, watching it happen this way around seemed to emphasised the oddness of stroking a strangers hair just because you like it.

1forsorrow

Thank you for sharing your husbands experience. You are right that thier differences have shaped thier views.

I'm sure he loves your ginger hair

He was amazed when we got together and he heard nasty remarks about ginger hair, he couldn't understand it. I think the first time was some bitchy girls on a train talking loudly about how unattractive ginger people are then turning to me and saying, "Sorry, no offence."

I think that was interesting really, it had never occurred to him that people could get abuse/prejudice for the colour of their hair rather than the colour of their skin. Mine has some help now, I'm more of a chemical strawberry blonde. I quite like strawberry blonde, wish I'd discovered it year sago.

People are horrible.
I've also heard the horrible comments about gingers....my dad is ginger.

He loves his ginger hair, but is upset on 2 counts:

1. None of us children inherited his ginger hair
2. It's now going grey

None of mine are ginger, maybe that's it for ginger in my family.

I think the vast majority of the people who dislike MM do so because she is a fake and disrespectful woman, full of her own self-importance. Not because she happens to have mixed heritage.

Yes and calling her those things have nothing to do with her heritage.

I'm always amazed at the amount of people on MN who must've met Meghan or how else would they know she's fake or know her motivations? And apparently poor Harry is sitting in front of the fire with an M&S ready meal etc etc. The batshittery is real...

I definitely think there's racism in this country but I do not believe we are a fundamentally racist country.

I find this "as a POC you're being racist because I feel and say you are" frustrating and slightly worrying. You can read my thoughts? There's a difference between intentional, ill meant racism and not understanding why something you feel innocuous is racist. I don't believe I am racist and would be more than happy to have it explained to me if someone perceived I was being.

I am not massively keen on Meghan. I find her false and affected and she clearly for any like us very much. I agree that there has been some racism towards her. I do think there are probably some people who are offended by a black woman marrying into the royal family, but I don't think it's the entire reason for her not getting an easy ride. Decent people reject racism and she was loved by many to begin with. Seems to me that her enthusiasm wore off once it became clear that other royals were more loved and feted than her and it wasn't going to happen overnight.

Posted to soon. I think Meghan was bored to tears with the actual dullness of Royal life in the end and "racism" gave her an easy out. I resent that.

What is interesting is that people of colour are almost always asked to give examples of racism experiences which sort of implies they are not believed whereas I don’t see instances where Jews are asked to give examples of anti Semitic acts and experiences. They are believed and empathised with which is the right thing to do by the way.

Was she loved initially? I remember lots of MN threads about "the Markle debacle" right from their engagement. Though the most recent threads say a lot more about the general population of MN than Meghan tbh.

Certainly the crowds gathered at the wedding and those viewed it on TV seemed pretty excited about it all and to begin with her press was positive. Everyone I knew thought she was a massive breath of fresh air and loved the idea of her.

Sorry jumping in on a tangent.

I wonder how much racism (and sexism and classism) costs us as a society? In that if the better candidate doesn't get the job because a less good (possibly a well off white man) gets the job over them, then that might have knock on affects on productivity. Further up the chain, if as a result of this we have posh white men running our biggest companies (and government) as a country we could be losing out big time. Apart from, of course, the posh white men, they would still be winners.

I wonder if numbers have ever been done on this? I think one big problem about tackling inequality would be that those at the top, directly benefit from inequality so lack the incentive to properly act. This is completely understandable, if making a more equal society meant that your own child would lose out and no longer have any head start, even those with the best of intentions might hesitate. On the other hand (and I think more likely) lots of people at the top, absolutely, hand on heart, think they already got there entirely through their own efforts on merit.

WendyMoiraAngelaDarling I am white, my husband and children are not. Yes this country is racist, not every single person but it is there. I know how differently I am treated when alone or with DH, I absolutely know the being ignored in a queue is a thing.

I know it from work, as a senior HR manager I've had to deal with managers in a disciplinary situation where they have two staff members who have done the same thing and they want to give the white member of staff a good talking to and make an example of the black member of staff, sack them or final warning. When you ask them why and point out how unfair that is, how would they defend that at a tribunal they stick to their guns but can't explain it. People don't even recognise they are doing it, or they won't recognise it.

And I wholeheartedly believe POC experience racism, I've seen it. I believe there are multiple incidents of racism. I just don't believe I am racist and I don't believe we live in a fundamentally racist country.

I don’t see instances where Jews are asked to give examples of anti Semitic acts and experiences.

That happened in alot of the labour anti semitism conversation that was on here in run up to the election tbh

" I find her false and affected" the fact that you don't understand that this comment is down to racism is ridiculous. What is affected about her? How does her behaviour differ so massively from the other royals?

I think that alot of criticism of MM or DA is based in race but i think you're pushing a weird line that there can be no criticism that isn't based on that

I don't think anyone is saying there can't be any criticism of Meghan that isn't based on that. That's an argument that's come up several times and has been refuted. Critcise her about private jets, fine (although it's Harry who mouths off about the environment, not her) but when an appearance by her where she's not wearing tights results in pages of outraged posts condemning it and then Kate does the same thing the following week and nothing is said, you have to wonder.

Re Diane Abbott, again it's the vehemence. Every time she made a mistake it resulted in lots of vitriol. After Corbyn was elected someone on here said she was "Strutting around like the secretary from the typing pool who's been sleeping with the boss". I don't recall the same being said about Theresa May!

@KenDodd

I graduated with a highly sought after STEM degree in the top 3 students of my class. I had participated in lots of activities, volunteered and had no less than 6 internships abroad and in the UK, some quite impressive especially given the work I had done. I also graduated from a prestigious uni. All in all I was an impressive candidate for any graduate program.

My field is dominated by white men. I struggled to get a job in my field. They loved my CV, I sailed through phone interviews, but upon meeting me there was an uneasiness about me. Suddenly people who were keen to snap me up, were reluctant, I would get awkward questions about "concern if I would fit in with the work culture here". I was jobless for 8 months and anyone who knew me was baffled. And no to questions and justifications about my appearance or my attitude, I am well spoken, polite and always put together. (Respectability politics is also racist where the victim has to prove they were "acting right" and it wasnt 4heir fault they were discriminated against). The other two top students got jobs almost instantly with less extra-curriculars and internships, they also happened to be white males.

I got advice from am older female in my field to expand my search internationally. She said it would be easier for me to find a job in a different field here or if I wanted to work in my field try expanding my search to include places I hadn't thought of. I got a job within 2 weeks, however had to contend with sexism and pitching ideas through my Male boss as opposed to what me doing it even if it was my assignment. But that's another story.

Afua Hirsch in today's Guardian on 'playing the race card'