Racism

[Pixxie7]

Does anyone agree with the continuing claims particularly amongst a lot of celebrities claim that the uk is fundamentally racist particularly in relations to Meghan-Markle.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

All these things are true:

• There are a lot of racist people in the UK.
• There are a lot of people in the UK who are not racist.
• The UK is one of the least racist countries on Earth.
• You'll never get everyone to agree whether or not he UK is "fundamentally racist" because no one can actually agree exactly what that means.

Minou oh please don't imply racism in that perfectly innocent remark. For goodness sake, we can barely speak. What did you think I meant, I meant she looks white....a mixed race person usually looks obviously darker skinned. Not that it matters, it was a comment relevant to what I was saying. Stop with looking for hidden meanings.

"you can hardly tell she's mixed race anyway"

Racist.

@crestedrobin "I meant she looks white....a mixed race person usually looks obviously darker skinned" ???

Did you mean to make an ignorant comment?

I know and have known since I was a kid mixed ethnicity people who look white especially at first glance. Infact a few ended up having discussions with me and other non-white people about how much racism they overhear because people think they are white. Some have siblings and cousins who are the exactly the same ethnicities as them but get treated differently because they are darker skinned.

Also the Duchess of Sussex has stated how she hates that she is airbrushed and lightened in photos. While they airbrushing every celebrity in photos they only lighten those who are non-white especially if they are women.

No it isnt, it's about the context. Its said when people imply she suffers from racism like the average black person....meaning she wouldn't get vile name calling etc. Don't be ridiculous.

Being mixed race means that you suffer racism just like the average black person, but also get it from some black people too.

My point is perfectly valid. Obviously I know not all mixed race people look mixed race, but the point was someone who DOESN'T will not suffer like someone who does. MM won't get the vile name calling my dgs gets because he has dark skin, don't try and imply something I'm not. I'm stressed out enough with dealing with his upsets. MM will not suffer like him because you can't tell she's mixed race, that was my point. Vile racists go off what you look like.

Of course the UK is a racist country. But, the racism is often hard to see, as it is within the constructs of the system. I work in academia, which is supposed to be extremely inclusive, liberal etc. I could say that I never see or hear any overt racism - which is true. On the other hand, I have met very few black people working in academia - I can actually only think of one in a good ten years that I had direct contact with, and that was as part of a course. So, either black people don't like science, or there is discrimination at some level. It's hard to pinpoint, because it is likely to be at every level - from the schools, to the universities, up to job applications and interviews. I don't know the best way to address the issue, but I do know that the first step isn't denying that it is happening.

@Areyoufree

Really interesting point. Not UK based, but an article about Maori and Pasifika children in the school system in NZ, shared some top students experiences of racism they experienced.

For example, it being assumed that they were in the wrong class when they turned up to the top stream class, teachers refusing to learn or speak their names, teachers passing them over for answering questions. Careers counsellors channelling them towards trades despite their excellent grades clearly making them very good candidates for university, in STEM and arts.

Caused one hell of a hullabulloo over there, with people absolutely adamant that these people were making it up, because of course NZ isn't a racist country. Okay, there's a little bit of racism, but not that much. Alright, there's possibly quite a bit of racism, but hey, we're better than other countries, right?!

Sound familiar?

As Taika Waititi put it, we're a great country, but racist as fuck.

The sooner you acknowledge a problem, surely, the sooner you can start addressing it.

I've been thinking about my comment from earlier re sexism and racism and I'm wondering if the racism is based on sexism? Or more specifically, her being a black woman. I think theres little doubt that coverage has been racist, but would a black man joining the royal family have experienced the same levels? I just can't help thinking it's the fact that she's a black woman that is the key issue - ie not just a woman but a black woman? And I've seen and read enough about the subtle and constant racism experienced by black women to feel like you almost can't separate the sexism from the racism?

The U.K. is very racist and has become more so since all the Brexit nonsense and since the Tories got in again.

crestedrobin

I wasnt implying racsism, I was curious to know what you meant. And you answered:

What did you think I meant, I meant she looks white....a mixed race person usually looks obviously darker skinned.
And
Obviously I know not all mixed race people look mixed race, but the point was someone who DOESN'T will not suffer like someone who does. MM won't get the vile name calling my dgs gets because he has dark skin, don't try and imply something I'm not.

I understand what you are saying. Because she looks "white", to you, therefore she doesn't suffer racism compared to people with darker skin.

This is another area Meghan Markle cannot win. For you she is too white, yet for others she is too dark. She is not conforming to the stereotypical "mixed race".

Some of the comments on twitter were vile, calling her the 'n' word, saying she was tainting the 'pure blood' of the royal family. But that's Twitter and there are nasty trolls on there.
But the press made a big thing out of her being too dark/black.
● "the first black person to marry into the royal family" - even though this wasnt true.
● The press also completed a family tree and I believe the headline was something like "Social Climber, from cotton slavery to royal family".- they have since changed the headline and some of the tone in the article! But you get the picture.
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5130473/Meghan-Markles-upwardly-mobile-family.html

I dont know if MM has suffered the vile name calling in person same as your dgs, but nor do you. Just because you dont think MM has experienced overt, terrible, vile racism, doesn't mean she hasn't.

Just to add, I am so angry for you and your dgs that he gets called vile names. This must be really difficult for you and him. It is truly disgusting and must be very stressful.

BlingLoving
I think theres little doubt that coverage has been racist, but would a black man joining the royal family have experienced the same levels? I just can't help thinking it's the fact that she's a black woman that is the key issue - ie not just a woman but a black woman?

I think you are right. I remember watching Trevor Noah on the view describing his life of a mixed race child during the apartheid. He said there was a clear hierarchy; white men, white women, black men, and last was black women. This always stuck out for me.

Not sure if a black man marrying into the royal family wouldn't experience racism in the press like MM has.
In my view, they would probably write articles implying he was 'well-hung' or a great dancer. The kicker with these sorts of comments is people defend these comments by saying "I can't be racist because it's a good thing to say all black men are be well endowed, they should be proud of it"

Sorry, just realised how long my comments are

Just reading through these comments and can I ask - am I the only person who didn't know the origins of the word 'uppity'? I honestly had no idea!

@minou123

The fetishisation of black men and the BBC is inherently racist and not positive or a compliment as you noted people's defence of that comment;

"I can't be racist because it's a good thing to say all black men are be well endowed, they should be proud of it"

In everyday life you are trying to exclude them from jobs and opportunities or profiling them as thugs, thieves or someone carrying a knife who will stab you, but inclusive when it comes to sex.

Black men do not exist for your pleasure. It strips them of their humanity and objectifies them. I experienced something similar when my DS was born and it made me despair. He had a testicle that had not descended and a nurse in trying to comfort me that it would be okay said to me while putting his nappy on "that not to worry at least he wouldn't struggle in that department as his is blessed" pointing her head at his genitals and laughing. How is that a compliment?

blubelle7
You have explained it so much better than I could. I absolutely agree with you.

Im not sure if that has come across well in my comment with all my double negatives.

I think the press would write racist articles about a black/mixed race man marrying into the royal family, as they have with MM. But in a "we mean it as a compliment" way.

not to worry at least he wouldn't struggle in that department as his is blessed" pointing her head at his genitals and laughing.
This is so upsetting. The fact that she laughed while saying it, is really chilling.

am I the only person who didn't know the origins of the word 'uppity'? I honestly had no idea!

You are no way near the only one. I didn’t know until I read this thread. I just remember the Mr Men book. In the same way, I don’t think many people would understand the meaning of the word ‘hysterical’ or think it was misogynistic to use the term.

I think you are right. I remember watching Trevor Noah on the view describing his life of a mixed race child during the apartheid. He said there was a clear hierarchy; white men, white women, black men, and last was black women. This always stuck out for me. That's interesting my children are mixed race, my husband always says he worries more about our son as he feels black or mixed race boys get a much harder time than girls, always suspected of being lazy, criminal and abusive where a mixed race girl is not viewed the same way.

His experience as a mixed race child in the late 40s and 50s was pretty horrific, particularly as his father died and his mother was a single women with a mixed race child which some people seemed to think meant she was a prostitute. I suppose his own experience has affected (I nearly said coloured) his view.

I honestly don't get it. I have lived in the ME and Asia as a child and teenager periodically as a diplomatic bratt, been at boarding school with other cultures and for much of my adult life lived overseas. The reality is that humans do look at others and make judgements, I'm more admiring places where people are honest rather than covert. Go to Saudi or Singapore and look for an apartment and be prepared to be asked what nationality you are.

Well my husband is British so not sure what that would prove.

1forsorrow

That's really interesting. If it helps Trevor Noah was talking about his mum and then spoke about society in apartheid.

I've tried to link the video, hopefully I've done it right! It's about 10mins in when he makes the statement

minou123 I will have a listen, just waiting for a phone call as elderly relative is waiting to go into a&e, she's been in the ambulance for 2 hrs, just what you need at nearly 90.

I suppose everyone's experience is different and 1950s in an industrial city in England might be different to South Africa. Mind you 2 people could live next door to each other and see it differently I suppose. His worst memory is when he was about 5 and someone spat in his face and told his mother where to take him but also horrible memories about school and teachers seeming annoyed that he didn't fit the stereotype they had, quite well behaved child who was academically bright (went to grammar school) but not interested in sport. Poor little boy. I remember that when he's driving me mad.

@Avelinebread

For the life of me I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make.

1forsorrow

Oh good, that's awful.

Let me know what you think, when you have watched. Your husbands experiences are awful, truley horrendous.