Racism

[Pixxie7]

Does anyone agree with the continuing claims particularly amongst a lot of celebrities claim that the uk is fundamentally racist particularly in relations to Meghan-Markle.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

There was certainly quite a few posters who dismissed the issue of anti Semitism in the Labour Party or implied that those complaining about it, MP’s who had resigned because of the issue were either being over sensitive or there was some sort of conspiracy theory

It’s lack of awareness (along with racism too) that contributes to the denial that there is any racist behaviour towards Megan Markle

Ffs one poster even claimed her Caribbean neighbour’s had never been suffered racism. Yeah right. People often don’t see othering as being racist either

Zipadeedoodah Canada not racist? Try talking to a first nation/native/aboriginal (can't keep up with the PC names) and ask them about racism. You will probably get quite an interesting response. The statistics are stark from mortality rates, suicide rates, poverty rates and imprisonment. So yes racism is alive and well in Canada.

joyfullittlehippo I apologise, I did not see those posts. It is not my intention to cause any upset. Sorry.

I hate that anytime a famous person of colour is disliked that it’s immediately put down to racial reasons. Diane Abbot is a prime example - the woman is absolutely clueless and helped at one point to bring Labour to its knees, yet it wasn’t long before people who criticised her were labelled racist. And I’m not saying racism in the U.K. doesn’t exist - it does. But it’s stupid that anyone of colour is beyond criticism because apparently anyone who dislikes them is clearly a racist.

I found Akala's book 'Natives' really good for understanding UK racism in its historical context.

The effects of the British Empire were and are seismic: on an institutional level it put white supremacy at the centre of our politics, judiciary and education. On an individual level, the elite sold white supremacy to the working class to turn them against their natural allies (those in the British colonies or who had emigrated from them to the UK, who were/are being screwed over by the same tiny bunch at the top) rather than coming together in solidarity with them, against the elite.

So when people refer to the country being racist, what they mean is that our institutions still rest on the presumption of white supremacy: who learnt about the British empire at school? How many white 12 year olds are regularly stopped and searched for 'fitting the description' of someone who committed a crime?

Institutional white supremacy does filter down to individuals, in the sense that we internalise what we are taught at school and if our experience matches the political line that we are an open, liberal multicultural society and the police are there to protect us, then of course we feel taken aback by the idea that for people of colour this is just not the way they experience UK life at all. Add to this the fact that racism - rather than something to be recognised and unpicked at institutional and individual level - has come to mean something entirely individual and amoral: this means that people equate being called racist or their country try being called racist with being called 'bad people'. No one likes being called a bad person, so they tend to quickly and angrily refute it rather than engaging with the experiences of people of colour and seeing how we could work together to dismantle the structures that enable racism to continue.

My husband got on the bus in a city outside of London recently and tapped his card on the contactless pad, not knowing that you had to ask the driver for a ticket first. The driver said 'your card doesn't work, get off'. Only when my mum got on behind him and said she'd buy his ticket did the driver explain - to her, not him - that he needed to tell him the destination first. So if my husband hadn't been with white people, he'd have been kicked off. Several people I've told this story to as an example of 'subtle' racism (it's not even that subtle!!!) have tied themselves in knots coming up with reasons why it wasn't about race. For him, who lives with this every day, it is exhausting.

I'm sure they have pockets of prejudice but it is not endemic or rife throughout their press and society.

I don't believe that about Canada, or well, maybe it's not as bad as here but I don't believe anywhere is a paradise of equality. My view of racism, and sexism, is that they are all fundamentally based around money. Having money (as a group) frees you from prejudice and not having it compounds and perpetuates it. White men are the richest people in the world and black women the poorest, I don't think it's any coincidence that they are also the most as least oppressed. So my measure of how well a country is doing would be how equal the different groups are doing with regard it income levels, I would be interested to see how the numbers in Canada stack up on this.

I do wonder as well if a country in Africa had developed industrially first, and not Britain, if the world order would be stacked the other way and light skinned people would be the ones feeling the burden of racism and dark skinned people gaining advantage for it.

KenDodd you are right and first nation/aboriginal women in Canada are at a disadvantage even in regard to being regarded as first nation (sorry going to drop the others but substitute any name you prefer) people if they marry someone from outside their ethnicity and they can't pass it on to their children so a man can marry who he likes and retain his cultural identity but a woman can't.

For this century the murder rate of first nation women in Canada was almost 6 times the rate of other women.

So racism and sexism and well represented in Canada.

long before she'd done anything wrong?

What's she done wrong!?
I don't royal watch so might have missed some terrible crime she's committed, but bloody hell, what could she have possibly "done wrong" to make people who have never even met her take such offence about?

She is now almost universally disliked, to the point where pretty much nothing the Queen does south of throwing her in the Tower is going to be considered too harsh by the public

What utter rubbish

Diane Abbot is a prime example - the woman is absolutely clueless and helped at one point to bring Labour to its knees, yet it wasn’t long before people who criticised her were labelled racist.

Funny though how she is criticised far more than white men who're just as useless, if not more so.

I suggest you see the abuse left on her Twitter feed.

This is the sort of thing that fuels it

Anyone who claims that racism isn't a significant issue in the UK is either woefully ignorant or in denial. Only this week, my teenage dd was forced to call out a kid in school for using the n-word to refer to one of her friends. His defence? It was just a joke.

There is also a huge amount of misogyny, as this thread demonstrates. God forbid that a woman of colour should dare to be confident and not "demure". FFS!

The Diane Abbot stuff is exactly the same as the MM issues. She is derided way more than others, and mocked as being stupid and thick (which of course has historic issues with racism).

The fact that people don't see that or deny it is ridiculous and an absolute example of how people don't understand that racism isn't just calling people the forbidden words.

"The woman is absolutely clueless", yeah am sure you got a Cambridge degree love, and have held public office for 30 years. Racist

Except for Boris, Gove, Grieve and Hammond who all got their numbers wrong in interviews during the same election as Abbott but didn't get the same abuse?

How about Farage totally not understanding how the WTO works whilst on Andrew Neil and advocating going to WTO rules?

What about Matt Hancock or Nicky Morgan in separate interviews about nurse numbers?

Nope none of them get derided to the same extent, for the same length of time, they aren't the subject of memes or mocking news stories in anything like the same way.

Ignoring this and denying its based on racism is idiotic.

Let’s face it and be honest many do not like the idea of a non white person in the royal family

That it’s not seen as quite British enough

The fact she is American doesn’t help but having a black mother is just too much for some and they won’t admit that. They make all sorts of excuses she is ambitious (so what) a social climber (well unless from a certain class marrying into the RF you will social climb in our odd and old fashioned view of class), she has been married before (oh no so what are you saying she isn’t a virgin), she doesn’t get the RF (who does they are a very messed up family) I just didn’t like her (we have never seen her be rude and she dealt with the he onslaught of media intrusion from her own family that she has had no contact with for years selling stories for money to the awful comments about her childs looks)

The only thing that backs up these ideas is third hand stories and experts that have never even met her giving their take on what she is really like that so many are willing to agree with

Diane Abbott misspoke in an interview. Something many male MPs have done. To use this to tar her as "absolutely useless" denigrates all her achievements.

@posterjoyfullittlehippo thank you for that post about the societal dynamics in Israel, that was really interesting.

I do agree about there definitely being racism in Canada, particularly towards the First Nations Peoples. However, if it's not a subject that you would seek to discuss with (some, obviously) Canadians, then quite possibly you wouldn't be aware of it. Because I come from a country with its own set of issues in relationship between the Indigenous people and later arrivals, (particularly the British, who had sovereignty extremely arguably ceded to them), I did seek to discuss it. And was pretty dismayed, really.

She has married Harry under the impression that she can do things her way, shake things up, be a "star", hobnob with the Clooneys and Angelina Jolie. Then has been confronted with an attitude of "That's not the way we do things around here" and she doesn't like it.

She used to be an actress, it's not exactly unexpected that she'd have showbiz friends. You're quite right though, she should stick to more suitable friends for a royal, like convicted paedophiles.

Funny though how she is criticised far more than white men who're just as useless, if not more so. I remember the Boris Johnson speech when he talked about cooking something in a microwave on gas mark 9, I thought then that Diane Abbot would get slaughtered for that but I've never seen a comment about it.

JRM wasn't the only one locked in a cupboard, I think it was Andrew Bridgen who tried to defend him and made it worse and I haven't seen hide nor hair of him since. He was quite a regular on TV for months prior to that. The cupboard must have got quite crowded.