Racism

[Pixxie7]

Does anyone agree with the continuing claims particularly amongst a lot of celebrities claim that the uk is fundamentally racist particularly in relations to Meghan-Markle.

I think as a country she was welcomed with open arms.

Yup its a racial slur when used to deacribe the actions of a woman of colour.

What has she done that is above her station?

What is her station?

Idiots.

I'm in a mixed marriage, I'm white but see racism firsthand if you see what I mean. I thought the country in general were either not bothered about her (not everyone is interested in the royals) or very welcoming. Unsurprisingly there was some racism but not alot, people generally talked about how beautiful she was and how talented.

I think they both did things that upset people, the preaching, the no pictures/silly pictures of the baby like them holding him all wrapped up so you couldn't see him or just a foot. Again some upset as they love the royals and wanted to see him and some not interested and thought they were attention seeking.

Then the lecturing us about saving the planet and then all their flying around, some for work fair enough but some for holidays. Felt very much like do what I say not what I do.

Personally I think if they want to go then great, get on with it but as a grandmother I feel for the Queen, I would be mortified if one of my GC showed such little consideration for me and I'm 20 years younger than the Queen.

I hope the forecasts of them divorcing are wrong, there is a child involved and Harry seems quite vulnerable but not much we can do about that.

Racism runs deep throughout the RF.(including Prince Harry, marrying someone mixed race doesn’t mean he isn’t. One of the reasons I hate them. Also their bizarre anti Catholic stance on marriage.

I used to like Harry, I don’t anymore. Is that racist? No he's ginger, you can be as nasty as you like to gingers. I'm speaking from experience, my husband was amazed when we got married as he said he'd never realised how nasty people are to red heads. Bizarrely many people seem to be obsessed with the colour of our pubic hair and feel free to tell you they couldn't have sex with anyone with red hair, I usually tell them it's manners to wait till you're asked. Actually I'm old now so it isn't a problem anymore, grey hair is useful.

blinkingowl I thought the RF were welcoming to MM and her mother. Prince Philip looked like he was charming to her at the wedding, he's not known for hiding his feelings.

I'm a Catholic and sadly know I can never be Queen.

We need to remember aswell that it isn't always about telling people to go home or the n word. For example my DH is very fetishised and objectived sexually by white women at work after a few drinks. He's had a number of senior female managers make dreadful comments. Why do they think this is OK? Because most black men in the media are sex symbols or known for athletism (rarely their intelligence) And of course if a white woman has a black partner it is all about size matters, years ago I got very tired of that, as if I was married to a penis not a person.

Brilliant post Ken, we all need to look inside ourselves and our motives etc and be aware of changes in our views.
Its something i'm certainly much more aware off as i've got older, i just don't want to end up like my aunt who seems to have morphed over the last 20 or so years into quite a nasty bigot.

Saying you are not a racist is a bit like saying i am a good driver!!!

People are still stuck in the dark ages where they think racism is simply prejudice against another race. It's more complicated than that now.

Casual racism is rife. Most people don't think they're racist as they feel accepting of other races. But they don't realise how negative connotations are attached to a person's colour, and I'm going to throw nationality and religion in there too.

Basically, the test is, did the race or nationality need to be mentioned? And if it was, why was it deemed necessary?

So for example, if you're telling a story about a taxi driver who was driving badly and you said, "The taxi driver was from Eastern Europe and was a really bad driver, so I didn't feel safe."

You could ask yourself why it was necessary to mention where the driver was from. Why did you not just say "the taxi driver was a really bad driver and I didn't feel safe"?

Attaching a negative comment about driving to a being Eastern European is casual racism.

Another example, a 15 yo (white) boy is discussing whether he'll ever have kids and he says "I'll either have no kids, or loads with a black woman, there'll be no in between."

The implication being that having loads of kids with a black woman is more extreme than having loads of kids. That's casual racism.

Both examples are true stories. And it happens all the time in the UK.

Casual racism is rife. Most people don't think they're racist as they feel accepting of other races. But they don't realise how negative connotations are attached to a person's colour, and I'm going to throw nationality and religion in there too.

I agree. I'm ethnically Japanese and have unfortunately encountered way too many men who fetishise me based on their warped perception of Japanese people, and way too many men (and women) who assume I'm some poor woman from Vietnam or China who should be grateful that I'm in Britain away from my life of 'poverty'. English is also my 3rd language (1st is German, 2nd is Japanese), leaving me with a very distinctively 'foreign' accent that definitely doesn't help my case!

leaving her doggo behind in the USA, then the £50k engagement dress (all the while banging on about poverty), the bananas, the lecturing, the bizarre baby photographs

She brought one dog with her. The other was elderly and apparently not considered well enough to come, according to vets. I have friends who did the same when they emigrated as their vet said the long journey and new environment would be very detrimental to their dogs health. They made sure their dog was with family but it was still a hard decision.

What bizarre baby photos? The ones I've seen all look perfectly normal!

I don't read tabloids so have no idea about the dress.

I had no idea ‘uppity’ was considered a racial slur. ‘It’s a racial slur when used to describe the actions of a woman of colour’ - but for anyone else it’s fine?

Meghan's much-derided banana signing actually resulted in the charity she was visiting getting more donations than ever before, enabling them to reach out to more sex workers. So yes the writing might've been a bit cheesy but it had the desired effect.

I had no idea ‘uppity’ was considered a racial slur. ‘

It's totally a racial slur in America. In the past it would be followed usually by the N word.

I personally have never heard "uppity" used in the UK - ever - until these threads.

Once something gets used by racists to the point that the average person thinks of racist usage when they hear it, it becomes a racial slur, whether or not or was beforehand. Even if that connotation exists initially only in a foreign culture, it spreads. It may or may not have been possible at one time to use "uppity" without it having racial overtones (though I doubt it; the first citation in the OED is from the Uncle Remus books) but now it's pretty much impossible for many people even in the UK to hear it without thinking of its use against black Americans to reinforce their lower social status, imply that they're lesser, childlike, etc.. Using it to describe a black person immediately pulls to mind its historic use against black Americans, reminding the hearer of the associated stereotypes, social status etc., positioning the subject of the comment as parallel to those subjected to it in the past. That won't happen in the same way when it's applied to, say, a white man, so no, it's not a racial attack when used against him.

Like, I dunno, if an older person described a young male checkout worker who made a mistake as a stupid boy. If the checkout worker were white, that would be a reflection on the checkout worker's relative youth and perceived inexperience. If the checkout worker were black, though, it would carry the weight of the historic use by white people of "boy" for black men to position them as subordinate and inferior. (The example I'm giving has to use an older person because otherwise calling the white checkout worker "boy" wouldn't make sense.) So in the second case, it's going to be interpreted as a racial slur even though it's apparently identical, and the person saying it may, in this case, not have meant anything to do with the worker being black.

And unlike "boy", I've never heard "uppity" used to describe anyone other than a black person or occasionally a woman of any race.

The people who didn't realise the word "uppity" was a racial slur exist in a bubble.

As a child it isn't your fault but as an adult you should have learnt that the history you were taught at school is not the history and experience of others. In fact if you are a woman you should be more ashamed of yourself for not realising this.

I’m white. Have found some commentators’ on this whole sorry mess (women of colour in particular) interesting. I do know the U.K. to be racist but it’s been thought provoking to listen (and try to hear) the experience of it described.
I too had/do thought/think that race had played some but little part in MM treatment. Not so sure now.

@ohprettybaby do you really think having Caribbean neighbours gives you any particular insight into this debate? I make a point of minimising the racism I have experienced to many people I know because it just causes issues and denials. I have a very good filter for those who it would be pointless telling the truth to and I suspect you are one. Are you on of those that believes just because you have not directly seen something means that it does not exist
? Look up the concept of the good immigrant it’s the idea that many of us are too scared also to admit our truths as we risk being accused of being ungrateful.
My white mother has said had it not been for having mixed race children she would have had NO idea how racist the uk was and even then she would not claim to fully know by virtue of having mixed race children @AraGrand I’m looking at you here. My heart sank reading your comment about having a mixed race daughter as proof of this absolving you of your offensive comments.

@challfont - you ask for a country to be named which has no racism, I would say that is difficult to do with certainty, however anyone having lived/worked or have relatives in Canada will know first hand just how different a culture they have. I'm sure they have pockets of prejudice but it is not endemic or rife throughout their press and society. That racism is part of our national identity and the global perception of us doesn't stack us up well against countries such as Canada.

@ColaFreezePop Ashamed of myself? If you say so 🙄

It's interesting that people say there is no racism in this country. It's easy for white people to say that as they don't encounter it. I am white and my husband is white. However, we have black children (that's another story). Only in this sort of situation will you see the amount of racism still around (particularly as people don't realise they are with us)!