Neighbour complaining that we're noisy

[MrBobLobLaw]

So we're having a bit of an ongoing issue with our neighbours below us. We only moved in 7 weeks ago. When we moved in I was 4 days overdue DC2, who arrived 5 days after that. We also have a 2yo who is very... two. So it's been a busy time and pretty full on.

We're on the ground floor and the neighbours are below us in the basement flat of a Victorian conversion. Obviously the floors are thin, such is the nature of the building, we hear the people above us walking about too but we have a rug down and try to be mindful as their bedroom is below our front room/kitchen.

They've complained twice before- once face to face when they knocked on the door in the evening when the baby was 2weeks old. I was obviously pretty flustered but said we'd do something. The second time was by text. Thing is the time they're complaining about (9-11pm ish) is when DC1 is in bed anyway and we have to do some degree of tidying during that time.

Anyway we got another text this morning saying can we be quieter in the morning, that 6:45 is early and can we be mindful of them. Obviously I sympathise, the couple who lived here before didn't have kids and were away a lot I think so it must have been quieter for them all round. They also don't have kids so wouldn't really understand that you can just shush a 2 year old or tell them that 6:45 is a bit early. As soon as we're up i put on the TV and I make DC1s breakfast so that he's sitting as much as possible.. but he's two! He wants to play and walk around. I feel like he's taking the brunt of it as I'm always having to tell him to be quiet, walk softer etc when really he's not doing anything wrong he's just being two.

Anyway we've been polite and apologetic thus far and tried to satiate them but we live here too and I can't make the building not Victorian. I'm knackered from looking after both DCs (not their problem i know) and feel like I'm doing all we can do be quiet for them.

WIBU to send the following text? :

Morning Neighbour, I’m doing the best I can with a 2 year old and a newborn to contend with now DPs back at work. If I could keep them both asleep and in bed for longer I would. Perhaps some earplugs might help.

Is that too rude?

Oh fgs the kid is just being two! You can't exactly chloroform them or duct tape them to the wall. It's frowned upon with social services these days. I would block their number and just get on with your family life. And enjoy your kids while they're still little. They grow up so fast.

@BorneoBabe you would wake her kids up so they are crying and then be more disturbed?? Where is the logic in that?

If it’s so awful for them to hear normal family life such as a child walking around perhaps they could get their ceiling soundproofed. One flat I lived in had this and it was great.

I’m sure they find it very annoying to hear you but it really doesn’t seem like you’re doing anything unusual or particularly noisy. If you were partying all night or replacing your bathroom at 10pm that would be something they could reasonably get annoyed about!

I don’t think you should have to apologise for normal family noise. Just say you have put rugs down, don’t wear shoes etc and that the building doesn’t seem well soundproofed.

I think @lucieinthesky text strikes the right tone. Not overly apologetic, just setting things straight - everyone can hear their neighbours in this set up. You have done what you can and that is that.

I can't help thinking that putting the tv on first thing is a bit unneighbourly. That would wake me up. Otherwise, I think carpets or more rugs are the answer.

When you say you have to do some degree of tidying between 9-11pm ish, what kind of tidying do you mean exactly? I grew up in a council flat and there was always that etiquette that you didn't put on washing machines/other noisy appliances, hoover etc after say 9pm. I can understand them being annoyed if they are listening to a hoover being dragged across the floor at 11pm - ish.

We have been on both sides of this. I highly recommend getting thick soled slippers for everyone in your family. I actually got some for my child last week from Next as he struggles walking up the stairs gently.

Anyway - thick soled sensible slippers make a huge difference!

And obviously thick carpet with thick underlay but that isn't a quick fix as it can be expensive or if you rent - the landlord may just refuse your request

Also another cheap idea are those foam jigsaw floor pieces! They are great at absorbing sounds.

Well, you really need to get onside with your neighbours (and them with you) because you’ll soon enough have 2 walking children, and you’re all owner-occupiers, so it’s not going to get better!

The only way to deal with this is a friendly chat with them over coffee (& possibly nice pastries!) in your flat, so they can look at the double-rugs, so that you can describe your routine, so that they can understand your toddler isn’t a feral hellbeast, and so that you can come up with compromises.

Fitted carpet - no matter how much you like your wooden floors - is probably the only way. You can explain to them that a) new flat purchase b) maternity leave and c) childcare costs mean this isn’t in your budget for the foreseeable, however. (Unless they want to contribute!)

What you must do AT ALL COSTS is keep it light and friendly, no matter how unreasonable you think they are. You could mention ear plugs as a suggestion as part of a general conversation about the waking habits of the toddler vs weekend lie-ins, but don’t put it in a text!

And remember- they’ve probably been at home more over Christmas too, so might all get settle down.

YANBU.

I do feel for you. We've been in a very similar position with an elderly neighbour downstairs both when living in, and renting out our flat over the past few years. She has complained about every single person who has lived in the flat since she moved in, despite it being a no-shoes, no-TV, tricycle and football-free zone in a building with set quiet hours after 2200. Complaints include walking up and down the stairs in socks or barefeet at any time of the day, vacuuming at times including 1200, 1600 or 1930 (some tenants ended up with a moth infestation because they were so intimidated by the complaints about the hoover), and the sound of the front door mechanism opening and closing at any time. Very hard for people to go to work or school without opening the front door, I think... The building is leasehold and we're not allowed to change the main door or the floor materials under the terms of the lease.

She ended up getting the council involved and insisted they came round to investigate the ongoing disturbance! Other neighbours told me that the poor council guys couldn't detect anything and didn't know what she was talking about. They told her it was just ordinary living noise within normal parameters and went away again.

We lost some tenants because of this neighbour and I've pretty much given up hope we can ever see eye to eye. I just behave reasonably and civilly and otherwise completely ignore her.

Good luck!

@JinglingHellsBells great suggested draft.

These are what I mean. www.argos.co.uk/product/1587247

I can understand why it's annoying to hear loud noises late and early. But also agree there's really not much you can do to keep a toddler and newborn silent.

Don't suggest earplugs. It's rude however you word it.

Apologise for the noise. Try and tidy up earlier in the evening. Can't one of you tidy while the other does bedtime so it's all quiet by 9?

Yes, that's rude.
Also, tidying up between 9pm-11pm when you know your main room is above their bedroom and putting the tv on at 6.45am is very inconsiderate.

There is a landlord they can complain to, the company that owns all your long leases. There should be some term in the lease about flooring in flats .
If there is not, nothing they can do bar moan.
If the lease says you need sound proofed floors, then you need to sort this. Isn't it a standard thing the solicitor would check?
If you have no overall freeholder in a flat that is weird (and you can also own a share of the freehold but it's still a separate legal entity that can enforce terms against you)
Unless you are Scotland and that's a whole different kettle of fish!

Well as your children are only months old and 2 years old, I'm guessing that your neighbours will just need to get used to the fact that they're no longer living with a relatively unoccupied flat above them pretty quickly! You own your property, and soon you'll have 2 children running around like children do! I'd tell them that you realise with the building being so old, you appreciate that there is noise from other apartments, as you can hear your neighbours, but there is nothing more that you can do that you haven't done already...

My upstairs neighbours bang a lot, scream and shout, run about, hoover their wood floor, play loud music, sometimes just as I'm putting youngest DD to bed. Their baby often wakes me during the night.

And I'm sure they must hear my kids and my arsehole dog barking.

Sometimes it's extremely irritating, but we both chose to live in flats and I think it's just something you have to accept, as long as it's not constant parties or whatever.

You can't walk on eggshells in your own home and shouldn't have to OP. I would tell them you're sorry, but have done everything you can and can't stop your children from moving about their own home.

Oh balls. Just reread and you already have the foam mats. Sorry! :(

I agree you should invite your neighbours up for a coffee and a chat to find out what their expectations are. I had no idea what a 2 year old was like until I had one so they might very well be in the same position.

Do you need to put the TV on first thing though? I have to admit that would irritate me.

@TwatCat your comment made me giggle! After a night awake and in agony it was needed! Thanks!

Do you need to put the TV on first thing though? I have to admit that would irritate me.

Not half as much as the child running around would

Yanbu in the "noise" you're making. But I sympathise with your neighbors. How come your front room is above their bedroom? Are the flats layout different or has one of you chosen to make the front room room into a bedroom? Do you know where the flat above you has their front room? Is it above yours?

@Brefugee and you'd be aware that they could just laugh and get their child to march to the grand old duke of York all day.

OP doesn't have to do anything. They bought a basement flat. They don't get silence.

@Retroflex you're welcome. Hope your pain goes away soon.

We live in a Victorian conversion and we have kids so I do sympathise - we are in the garden flat so thankfully don’t disturb anyone below us but our upstairs neighbours couple were insanely heavy footed and deep voiced and it was making our lives a living hell, to be frank.

We managed to remain friendly about it and in the end we split the cost for them to lay soundproofing - it meant they didn’t need to worry so much about making noise and that we weren’t permanently annoyed.

Other than that - I think Lucyinthesky’s text is perfect.

I don't understand why a family with young children would actually choose to live in a flat where people live both below and above. Clearly you are going to be a noise nuisance to those below and above are going to be a nuisance to you.

If you can't afford a house or bungalow, wouldn' it be better to buy a basement or ground floor flat if you have DC so that you minimise the noise nuisance and impact your family has on others?