Neighbour complaining that we're noisy

[MrBobLobLaw]

So we're having a bit of an ongoing issue with our neighbours below us. We only moved in 7 weeks ago. When we moved in I was 4 days overdue DC2, who arrived 5 days after that. We also have a 2yo who is very... two. So it's been a busy time and pretty full on.

We're on the ground floor and the neighbours are below us in the basement flat of a Victorian conversion. Obviously the floors are thin, such is the nature of the building, we hear the people above us walking about too but we have a rug down and try to be mindful as their bedroom is below our front room/kitchen.

They've complained twice before- once face to face when they knocked on the door in the evening when the baby was 2weeks old. I was obviously pretty flustered but said we'd do something. The second time was by text. Thing is the time they're complaining about (9-11pm ish) is when DC1 is in bed anyway and we have to do some degree of tidying during that time.

Anyway we got another text this morning saying can we be quieter in the morning, that 6:45 is early and can we be mindful of them. Obviously I sympathise, the couple who lived here before didn't have kids and were away a lot I think so it must have been quieter for them all round. They also don't have kids so wouldn't really understand that you can just shush a 2 year old or tell them that 6:45 is a bit early. As soon as we're up i put on the TV and I make DC1s breakfast so that he's sitting as much as possible.. but he's two! He wants to play and walk around. I feel like he's taking the brunt of it as I'm always having to tell him to be quiet, walk softer etc when really he's not doing anything wrong he's just being two.

Anyway we've been polite and apologetic thus far and tried to satiate them but we live here too and I can't make the building not Victorian. I'm knackered from looking after both DCs (not their problem i know) and feel like I'm doing all we can do be quiet for them.

WIBU to send the following text? :

Morning Neighbour, I’m doing the best I can with a 2 year old and a newborn to contend with now DPs back at work. If I could keep them both asleep and in bed for longer I would. Perhaps some earplugs might help.

Is that too rude?

Maybe a cheery. Hi, so sorry. Passed on your message to my two year old, little bastard won’t listen to reason! He’s convinced that 6:45 is a perfectly normal time to be awake (followed by some kind emoji)

This kind of cutesy shit would infuriate me. Remember that not everyone is as charmed by your kids as you are.

There’s not a lot either of you can do. It’s amazing how much noise a stomping toddler can make. My neighbours had a similar problem with wooden floors above them. The problem was solved by taking down the ceilings and putting in soundproofing. Cost about 40 grand.

If you own, I would either get carpet fitted in the front room or hard flooring with an element of noise reduction. Karndean korlok for example, or engineered wood that you can put underlay under. We've just done the latter in our dining room and both the footfall noise and general echo in there are vastly reduced.

Of course, your neighbours will probably moan about the noise of doing the work, but it's tough shit on that one.

I wouldn't use vacuum cleaner late in the evening or early in morning ditto washing machine (if that's included in tidying up) - Wilko & Ikea do very large rugs

As if the OP would spend money just to satisfy the flat below!

And obviously, you can only do that when funds permit.

Honestly, YANBU here - it's everyday noise of living and toddlers and babies (or even older children tbh) are not going to manage to keep quiet just for neighbours. If you live in flats then noise is an expectation unfortunately so I'd be minded to just ignore them from now on as you've done a lot already.

Frankly, posts above asking if your toddler could wear headphones for the TV (which you mentioned is already on quiet anyway) are not sustainable. This is your home after all and you need to be able to actually live normally in it. I'm sure neighbours above and below are not sitting there watching TV with their own set of headphones on after all.

Equally, 6:45am is not unreasonable to be be up. Most people are getting up, showered, and ready for work at 6-6:30am.

If you need to reply to their text then I'd advise against the earplug comment - as PP mentioned above, it sounds a bit antagonizing. I think I'd simply state that you've tried to remedy the situation by putting down rugs to muffle some of the noise of walking around and dont wear shoes etc. but otherwise there's not much else you can do. The reality is, there isn't much you can do (short of replacing the flooring with a thick carpet and underlay - but these things cost money and take time!) as you obviously can't avoid walking around your home and your children simply wont be able to be silent all the time (I also think its unfair to try to make them - they're kids after all) so your neighbours will need to find their own solutions if its bothering them.

< Light hearted > Thank you for your valuable observations, have contacted the manufacturers, and now set our toddler to stealth mode.

I like that message @chillichutneysarnie, thank you.

With regards what tidying do we have to do in the evening it's just general picking up cups/plates and stacking the dishwasher. Wiping down the sideboard and dining table and picking up stuff from the floor. DS starts nursery next week so he won't be home to make as much mess and I'll have more time in the day to tidy up. It's been a juggle to keep him entertained over Xmas whilst all the playgroups are shut and take him out and about with the newborn too.

He's asleep probably by 8:30 but in bed from 7:30, wish it was earlier but such are bedtimes in our flat. He's not making noise though and in his bedroom in any event.

My toddler was up at 5 today, nose all bunged up and distressed. We live in a flat. She screamed the place down while we put her nebuliser to help her breathe. We live in a flat and have next door neighbours. They can hear us and we can hear them. Neither of us are being arses just make normal everyday living sound. Neither of us complain. When they can afford it they can go and live in a house in the middle of the countryside. Then they will realise how LOUD wildlife is...just saying.

I think you need to consider putting down fitted carpet with a good underlay in your living room.
You say you are doing all you can and I understand, but they have just as much right to enjoyment of their home as you do.

I never really understand when people say to go to the neighbours home to listen to the noise yourself to see how loud it is. Why? Your not going to hear yourself making noise are you.
My fil used to use a machine for work in his house that made a noise that would irritate anyone having to hear it. The neighbours complained to the council about the noise and my in-laws received a letter about it. A man from the council visited but conveniently my mil arranged it for when only she was at home so there was no machine on or tv and radio on. My mil started crying and telling him how upset she was to have a complaint made agains them so the man told her to just ignore the neighbours complaints.
I felt sorry for the neighbours.
Also, when people say to tell the neighbours to go and live in a detached house if they want peace and quiet, they can easily just tell you to go and do the same if you want to make all the noise you want to.

I hope you get this resolved soon.

If you live in a flat you have to expect noise, just ignore them. (Is why I won't consider the gorgeous flat I saw)

I feel for you OP, I really do. I had three under three and obviously they make a lot of noise. My neighbours did not help my situation whatsoever, they started drilling or hammering on the walls whenever one of them cried which only made them cry more. It was such a stressful period in my life as it was, they just made it a billion times worse as I’m imagining your neighbours are doing.

They don’t have children so probably have no idea what it’s actually like to contend with a toddler and newborn. You sound as though you’re doing the best you can to me personally. They should be thankful you’re not blasting music or doing late night DIY.

OP have they mentioned that it's walking that they can hear?

With kids & Victorian buildings there is an element of give and take, but it shouldn't be so loud that they are able to constantly hear you. There are things that can be done to soundproof; and your landlord may need to do that if there are noise complaints. We live in an old Victorian building now; we barely hear the people upstairs, kids included.

Could DH go and see exactly what they can hear? Is it the TV? Washing machine vibrating the floor? Is it step, or toys, or you talking?

They could just be totally unreasonable people but I'd give them the benefit of the doubt initially, with the hope that it'd stop neighbour relations deteriorating any further, and hopefully stop council noise complaints and the like, as that's not fun.

@pickachew the type of wood flooring you describe is pretty much what we have. Interlocking herringbone flooring with underlay beneath laid on top of mdf panels on top of the original wooden floor boards.

The rug we have down is probably 2m by 3m so pretty big! And there's two of them on top of each other.

Can you put carpets down? Having lived in several ground floor / basement flats I can sympathise with your neighbours.

I think they sound unreasonable. I used to live in a similar property and was woken every morning at 5.30 by the upstairs neighbour’s alarm and then their ablutions including drying her hair every single day. It could be irritating but I didn’t complain thinking it was the price of living in a flat. Then one Saturday night I had friends over and the neighbours came downstairs to complain about the noise at about 11.30pm. I said I was sorry to disturb them but it was a one off event (and it was, I lived on my own and was out a lot so was not noisy at all), and that I thought they should tolerate it, just as I tolerated their early morning routine of x, x and x. They were taken aback I could hear so much that I could enumerate their morning routine but argued that it was different as their getting up early was essential. I said I didn’t think so, it was all just part of living close together in a small space and we had to put up with the inconvenience that could cause. I was doing very well and definitely had the moral high ground until I started to close the door. Then my friends who had all gone silent during our exchange gave a very loud and drunken cheer of triumph!

I would text them back saying ‘sorry we are disturbing you. It’s really hard to stop sound travelling in these old buildings. We are doing best to keep it to a minimum and hopefully things will improve once the DC start sleeping longer’. You are acknowledging the problem but not taking the blame for it and you aren’t committing to anything that you can’t follow through on.

Just to reiterate: we all own so no landlord involved. No hoovering is done early in the morning or late in the evening.

When I asked what noise they hear they said it's walking around and noise as if furniture is being moved (which it isn't obvs).

They're not being rude to us when complaining btw and like I say I sympathise with them.

I wouldn't apologise and say bear with us at all - it's 6.45am, hardly early. Any working person would be up and about at that time of day as well. They have been lucky to have absent neighbours for as long as they have.

Yes, that message about the earplugs was rude.
Unfortunately, even if you thought to send it it shows you think they have the problem, not you.
But the noisy problem does lie with your family.
I've lived in Victorian properties. Good deep rugs and carpets (not flimsy ones), no shoes as you say you are already doing, no loud TV, and being respectful of which room is over which and the time, has always worked.

I don’t think your redrafted message strikes the right tone. Could you do something along the lines of sorry they are being disturbed/ you’re trying to be considerate etc and have laid some rugs to try and dull noise and to let you know if you can come round and hear what it’s like for them. I think you need something non-committal but sympathetic.

It doesn’t sound like there is much you can do really and 6.45 is not that unreasonable. Plenty of people would be up for work and plenty of small children will be up far earlier. You’ve got a right to live and do normal things and silence can’t be expected.

Don't mention earplugs- that is sarky and ups the ante.

Just apologise, explain you can't keep a baby and two year old quiet-and, if you can afford it, say you're going to get carpets put down on all your floors. Take all shoes off when you enter the property and do get the carpets.

I've lived above noisy neighbours, and it was hell I'm afraid.

FFS, you're not having wild parties or hammering nails in incessantly. If they want absolute peace and quiet they should move into a detached house. My reply would be rather more blunt. Something like:

"I get that you have a low tolerance for noise, you don't need to give me daily reminders. We are doing our best to keep the noise to a reasonable level but frankly we are not doing anything that could be considered unreasonable to reasonable people. If you have meaningful suggestions that don't include us doing things like lying in bed 24 hours a day or walking around with 12 inch cotton wool pads strapped to our feet do let us know. Otherwise, fuck right off and stop harassing us.

If you sent me any of the texts mentioned above, I'd bang on a common wall at 3 AM and wake up your kids.

Me friend lives in a flat and it states they are not allowed wood flooring except in the kitchen and bathroom to minimise the noise, you may need bigger rugs for the lounge to cover most of the floor and runners for the hallway.

Though if they complain again I would say you are doing your best but unfortunately this is the joys of living in an old victorian building you can hear everything.

You are definitely not being unreasonable here! Your DC have just as much of a right to enjoy their home as your neighbours do. I'd reply with:

'Hi neighbour, really sorry you're hearing more noise than you would like to from above. We often hear our upstairs neighbours walking around too - I think it's part of the parcel that comes with living in a Victorian flat conversion. The noise you're hearing isn't excessive shouting or loud music, it's just us living our day to day lives. We have done x, y, z to minimise disturbance - there isn't anything further we can do about this at this time'

Then ignore.