Neighbour complaining that we're noisy

[MrBobLobLaw]

So we're having a bit of an ongoing issue with our neighbours below us. We only moved in 7 weeks ago. When we moved in I was 4 days overdue DC2, who arrived 5 days after that. We also have a 2yo who is very... two. So it's been a busy time and pretty full on.

We're on the ground floor and the neighbours are below us in the basement flat of a Victorian conversion. Obviously the floors are thin, such is the nature of the building, we hear the people above us walking about too but we have a rug down and try to be mindful as their bedroom is below our front room/kitchen.

They've complained twice before- once face to face when they knocked on the door in the evening when the baby was 2weeks old. I was obviously pretty flustered but said we'd do something. The second time was by text. Thing is the time they're complaining about (9-11pm ish) is when DC1 is in bed anyway and we have to do some degree of tidying during that time.

Anyway we got another text this morning saying can we be quieter in the morning, that 6:45 is early and can we be mindful of them. Obviously I sympathise, the couple who lived here before didn't have kids and were away a lot I think so it must have been quieter for them all round. They also don't have kids so wouldn't really understand that you can just shush a 2 year old or tell them that 6:45 is a bit early. As soon as we're up i put on the TV and I make DC1s breakfast so that he's sitting as much as possible.. but he's two! He wants to play and walk around. I feel like he's taking the brunt of it as I'm always having to tell him to be quiet, walk softer etc when really he's not doing anything wrong he's just being two.

Anyway we've been polite and apologetic thus far and tried to satiate them but we live here too and I can't make the building not Victorian. I'm knackered from looking after both DCs (not their problem i know) and feel like I'm doing all we can do be quiet for them.

WIBU to send the following text? :

Morning Neighbour, I’m doing the best I can with a 2 year old and a newborn to contend with now DPs back at work. If I could keep them both asleep and in bed for longer I would. Perhaps some earplugs might help.

Is that too rude?

I'm smiling because your neigh ours think 0645 is "early" for a 2 year old... try 0530 on a GOOD day!

As this fall under everyday ordinary noise I'd just ignore them.

We all own so no landlords. The TV is on low so not loud, I figured low TV volume but a sitting child was better than a free roaming two year old and no TV noise.

I think the exclamation marks are a bit much, and the note is too long. Why not meet with them to discuss - I always find face to face much more sincere. I appreciate there’s nothing you can do though. I’ve had this before as a singleton when I was in a flat, the kids were always up shouting etc but I knew there was nothing they could do.

They are being unreasonable. That's just how living in a flat is. I would just stop really engaging with them they're obviously not reasonable people. What do they expect you to do with your two year old?!

They just answered a similar problem at care and feeding parenting advice column. Maybe the third question down:

slate.com/human-interest/2020/01/when-grandparents-play-favorites-care-and-feeding.html

You need to know how noisy you are, so when your dp/dh is home go down stairs, get dp to play with 2 year old so you can hear how noisy it is.

I'm surprised that you have a wooden floor, they are actually banned in a lot of flats other than basement / lowest floor because they do make life noisey.

@St0pTryingT0MakeFetchHappen they would've hated us a few months ago- 6:45 is a spa like lie in these days!

@Throckmorton - why should a two year old have to wear head phones in his own home to watch Tv?

@MrBobLobLaw The text is rude, yes.

Lots of posters assume you are renting- are you? I assumed you were owners. Makes a difference.

You say you have to do some tidying up etc from 9-11pm.

I don't understand how tidying up can be so noisy? What are you doing? Is this just walking about your flat, or is it throwing toys into boxes, dragging stuff across your floors?

I'd be annoyed if I could hear excessive noise after 10pm as that is my winding down time and bedtime often.

Could you try to do your noisy stuff earlier?

Your 2 yr old must surely be in bed before 9.

On the other hand, anyone who buys a conversion flat is aware noise issues- or should be.
It's partly their own fault for having expectations of their flat which is always going to be vulnerable to noise from above.

This is why some people would never touch a conversion.

DC2 wanted to look at some when buying for the first time and we said no for the very reasons of noise.
Even in their modern block of flats they can hear a baby crying downstairs or next door sometimes.

I think you should remain super polite and talk to them. Ask then exactly what they can hear and what would be reasonable.

I don't think 6,45 am is unreasonable.

We are often woken by a neighbour's dog barking at 6am when they let it out in the garden. We've spoken to them and they have done sweet FA about it and simply do't care. There is not a lot we can do and neither can your neighbour, really.

Nope! That you have a troddler and a newborn IS THE PROBLEM for them. So that first line would probably infuriate them!

Thing is is really PA.. again it sounds as though you actually WANT to piss them off further!

As does the last paragraph, So yes, I'd seriously think about not committing anything to paper!

Go knock on their door and make proper acquaintence. Invite them in to yours for coffee so they can see what is happening your end... that you are not a herd of elephants and they have just been lucky with very quiet neighbours before!

Then ignore them! You have every right to live your life and nothing you have posted seems excessive in any way, even the 6.45 wake up time!

Seen your update.

I really would not mention earplugs. It sounds patronising and bit loaded tbh.

Obviously it's issues like this which make people consider moving and that is their choice. They have been lucky to have not heard previous neighbours at all, but they were short sighted to imagine a Vic conversion was soundproofed. They can always move if they want more peace and quiet.

I think a face to face talk would achieve a better result. Maybe send a text inviting them to pop in for a coffee to discuss what changes they would like. Just demanding you be quieter doesn't help, they need to come up with solutions.

Maybe put some carpet down in living room? TBH this is an issue with flats generally really .Just tell them you are doing all you can ,but with 2 children its not easy!

I would send a text reply along the lines of

So sorry we seem to be disturbing you, it's not intentional. We're aware of our neighbours too and I think part of the problem is the building and wooden floors. We have laid rugs and I'm very conscious to keep noise to a minimum but with a newborn and 2 yo it's impossible to keep them quiet and I don't know what else I can do. If you've any ideas let me know! Once again I'm sorry.

Don't suggest ear plugs..sounds a bit patronising.

If they continue to complain I'd reply with please see previous text and ignore.

Good luck.

Does your lease say you need to have carpet? Lots of flat leases state this in which case you need to fix that

It's best if you can get on with your neighbours. In your place, I'd invite them up for a coffee. If you build up a relationship they might be less able to complain, and they would see the lengths you have gone to, to minimise noise.

Lease as in lease hold- I know you own OP

OP- example of note through their door.

"I'm really sorry that our noise is upsetting you. How about you pop round for a cuppa over the next couple of days maybe at 10am ( or whenever) and we can have a chat over what might be feasible to make it easier for both of us."

To everyone saying just have a chat- pretty difficult as I'd have to bring along newborn and DC1 with me and it would become a 'don't touch that darling' exercise in between snatched conversation.

Pretty sure the people above us have just the original floor boards down whereas our wooden floor is laid on top of mdf type board and underlay. It was in place before both us and the neighbours moved in.

"Dear neighbour, I'm so sorry you can hear so much of our daily movements. I know the building transmits a lot of sound (I can hear the floor above me a lot too). We are always mindful of you and are trying our very best, but with a 2yo and newborn it's not possible to be completely quiet or get up later, as much as I would love that! We've already put a double rug down on the wooden floor to dampen as much as possible."

How's that?

Could you try a rubber play mat? I bought one for our sitting room with wooden floor boards & it has made a world of difference. We bought one from Totter & Tumble and it looks lovely, not like your typical playmat iyswim. totterandtumble.co.uk

You need to carpet the living room, with good quality sound-deadening underlay too. It is the only thing that makes any real difference.

Don't send any of those drafts. they all sound snarky. Deal with it when you feel less frazzled

Tbh I think they are being unreasonable, the noise you are making is normal day to day noises (with the exception of cleaning at 9-11pm, too late for hoovering). If you buy a flat in a converted Victorian building noise from neighbours above and below is unavoidable.

I live in a Victorian terrrace and have a flat next door. Their living room is next to my bedroom so when we moved in we could hear them talking, the tv, their baby crying etc etc. I wouldn’t dream of asking them to be quiet as I knew the set up of the houses when I bought it. We got sound proofing.

Also 645am early!? They are lucky they don’t live below us as mine is up at 540am on the dot!

TBH if i were your downstairs neighbour and you told me to get earplugs I'd reply with something like "tie your toddler's legs together"

I think the first thing you need to do is invite them round for coffee/tea/drink in the morning/afternoon/evening and get to know them. Also - what are you doing between 9-11pm that you can't do earlier? are you still doing moving in stuff or is this just general living? I have to get up at 5am and go to bed at 9, read for a while then sleep. If my neighbour was making noise I'd definitely ask them to cut it out/down.

Yes, children are noisy. Yes, you all love in flats. But you all bought those flats so some consideration is necessary. You might want to ask if you can go down and listen so you can see how noisy it really is.

Also have a foamy play mat down and don't allow DS to bring any hard toys in to the front room. And obviously encourage him to play in his bedroom as much as possible too.

I will consult the magic money tree regarding new carpet and sound proofing underlay. Luckily my parents had two old rugs they gave us otherwise we'd be making do with the hallway runner we had down before.

Not sure if it says anything in the lease regarding carpet onlyfools I'll have to check.