Neighbour complaining that we're noisy

[MrBobLobLaw]

So we're having a bit of an ongoing issue with our neighbours below us. We only moved in 7 weeks ago. When we moved in I was 4 days overdue DC2, who arrived 5 days after that. We also have a 2yo who is very... two. So it's been a busy time and pretty full on.

We're on the ground floor and the neighbours are below us in the basement flat of a Victorian conversion. Obviously the floors are thin, such is the nature of the building, we hear the people above us walking about too but we have a rug down and try to be mindful as their bedroom is below our front room/kitchen.

They've complained twice before- once face to face when they knocked on the door in the evening when the baby was 2weeks old. I was obviously pretty flustered but said we'd do something. The second time was by text. Thing is the time they're complaining about (9-11pm ish) is when DC1 is in bed anyway and we have to do some degree of tidying during that time.

Anyway we got another text this morning saying can we be quieter in the morning, that 6:45 is early and can we be mindful of them. Obviously I sympathise, the couple who lived here before didn't have kids and were away a lot I think so it must have been quieter for them all round. They also don't have kids so wouldn't really understand that you can just shush a 2 year old or tell them that 6:45 is a bit early. As soon as we're up i put on the TV and I make DC1s breakfast so that he's sitting as much as possible.. but he's two! He wants to play and walk around. I feel like he's taking the brunt of it as I'm always having to tell him to be quiet, walk softer etc when really he's not doing anything wrong he's just being two.

Anyway we've been polite and apologetic thus far and tried to satiate them but we live here too and I can't make the building not Victorian. I'm knackered from looking after both DCs (not their problem i know) and feel like I'm doing all we can do be quiet for them.

WIBU to send the following text? :

Morning Neighbour, I’m doing the best I can with a 2 year old and a newborn to contend with now DPs back at work. If I could keep them both asleep and in bed for longer I would. Perhaps some earplugs might help.

Is that too rude?

The smell of weed permeating your flat and having smoke in your flat from the fire pit thing is totally unacceptable. I'm not sure from your post whether that is from the complaining neighbours below or from those above.

I think I'd put the flat up for sale and look for somewhere more suitable to live. (At the very least a flat where you aren't both above and below other householders).

Oh bollocks to them quite frankly.

You can't not live - loud music, parties I totally get. If in a flat I also wouldn't hoover or put the washing machine on before 8.30am or after 8.30pm something like that. I would always be considerate. However - I wouldn't be limiting the amount of walking about I do, not letting children get out of bed or anything of that nature.

If you live in a flat or a terrace etc you are going to hear your neighbours 'living'. If you start sending messages saying what you are doing to appease them it will never be enough. They will be happy for a while and then moan that you go to the toilet after 10pm or something.

I'd talk face to face, not send a text or a note. Can your DP look after the kids and you pop down? Or invite the neighbours to yours so at least the 2-year-old might be quiet if you put the TV on for him or something?

I think the noise is everyday noise and they're being U. 'General picking up cups/plates and stacking the dishwasher' and 'Wiping down the sideboard and dining table and picking up stuff from the floor' is highly unlikely to make that much noise. And 6.45am really isn't that early.

Explain calmly that their lives encroach on yours too – the weed, the fire pit –and what tidying/other activities you do in the evening. Also tell or show them that you have MDF and underlay underneath the wooden floor and a foamy play mat down and that you don't allow hard toys in the front room.

If they're still being difficult after that then I'd be inclined to think they just want silence, which unless you were the same as the old neighbours and were childfree and/or away a lot is not reasonable to expect.
TBH they've got a cheek complaining about child noise and tidying up when they smoke weed and light a fire pit.

I live in a Victorian conversion flat too. No one in the three flats has kids, but we can all sometimes hear each other walking/talking/opening and closing doos/going up and down the stairs. That's just life in a flat.

They are out of order.
I live in a ground floor flat and am currently listening to my neighbours 3 year old running around. Big deal!
When you live in flats you accept that there will be noise from other people living their lives.

If they want total quiet then they shouldn't live in an apartment! There's always going to be noise!

"Hello,
Unfortunately in older buildings, normal everyday noise does carry. We've done everything we can to minimise noise, including putting rugs down.

I appreciate that you might have had the midguided idea that you flooding our house with smoke and cannabis fumes might make the children sleep later but, as you can see, it's not working, so perhaps you could stop it now."

He smokes weed... why didnt you say OP...get texting back!!!!

Acoustic insulation standards iin UK homes are very poor indeed.

Makes me gald that I can afford a decent Detached house!

I don't thibk your being unreasonabel the other old ones there should approcate that new children new life is noisey and thats the way it is thats also whay they have retirment homes and the like they ought to go if your doing all you can and it seems as if you are.

I wonder if they made any sounds when they were young;?..

I'm genuinely shocked at the amount of people saying YABU, you need to be considerate of them, put down carpets/mats/soundproofing etc. They also need to be considerate of you! Just because their old neighbours didn't make any noise, that doesn't mean they're entitled to silence. Humans make noise. Tiny humans even more. It's just the way it is.

I had a next door neighbour a few years ago who banged on my door shouting and swearing for every little thing. The most memorable incident was him coming and calling us selfish c*nts for having a party and still being up talking/laughing at 1am.... I realise this is very late normally but IT WAS NEW YEAR'S EVE.

People are odd. Use your second draft (minus the ear plugs bit) and ignore any follow up!

I'd be annoyed too. I had years of getting up at 5.30 with my own kids, no way would I want to live in a flat being disturbed by other people's. It doesn't sound like a suitable place to live with small children.

I very much doubt it's the sound of a toddler toddling about that they're hearing. It's far more likely to be the sound of you and your DP.

What does the fact that your DP is back at work have to do with anything?

Does the baby wake screaming in the morning? During the night?

Also doubt the TV sound is irritating them.

2 personal experiences:

1. Semi detached house with ZERO soundproofing. You could hear the toilet flushing next door - could hear her vomiting when she was pregnant - that sort of thing. Neighbours complained that me and my dd (me weighing 7.5 stone and dd age 4 weighing approx 3 stone) sounded like a herd of elephants going up the stairs. Complained that we were banging doors all the time - we weren't. Eventually relations with that neighbour came to almost blows when my boyfriend moved in a couple of years later - ended up in court - we moved. It was horrific. We literally couldn't move for fear of them saying we were making noise.

1. Current neighbour - has a baby. The first 4 months of that baby's life, I barely got a wink of sleep. I think it had reflux or something as the screams were like something out of the Exorcist - day and night - interminably. I can hear voices - their voices - but never hear a TV. Mercifully the baby has stopped screaming.

Babies and small children are noisy. No getting round it.

I live in a flat and while the neighbour upstairs is quiet (no downstairs neighbour), we do him moving round and using his washing machine/vacuum cleaner. To me, that's normal household noise and I would include children in that.

It sounds frustrating but more to the setup of the building rather than everyday noise that can be expected.
Maybe try the iPad instead of the tv in the mornings?
Tbh the smell of the weed would upset me more. In fact my DC breathing it in would really upset me.
Maybe address that with them if they want to point out issues.

I would suggest not engaging with them. It might be in future you would be glad of friendly neighbours.
I would invite them round for coffee and also arrange to go down to theirs to hear for yourself what the issues are.

The weed (coming in where your newborn sleeps! SIDS risk) and the smoke are actually dangerous. You need to get those stopped. Forget the noise (which, I agree, comes under 'typical noise people living in close proximity have to put up with').

Respond that you are taking all reasonable steps to minimise noise, but that their weed and fire pit smoke is putting your children's health and your newborn's life at risk and you expect that to stop.

I think that text sounds very rude, honestly. We have a downstairs neighbour and I honestly don't think people who live on the ground floor realise exactly how their noise travels.
We hear when they're in the toilet, we hear when their kids are screaming at 5 in the bloody morning (sorry, if that sounds aggressive, but they were doing it again today!), we hear when they can't close a cupboard door without slamming it, we hear their kids running a toy over the radiators - I'm fed up of it, and, I'm guessing your neighbours are too!

I know you can't help your young children making noise, but you can do some things to lessen the noise, like better sound proofing - suggesting that they should use ear plugs is quite rude in my opinion!

Can't you go halves with them to insulate/soundproof under your floorboards/above their ceilings. You could do the same with the people above you. I imagine it would add value to your properties.

I lived in a very similar arrangement pre children with a (lovely) couple above who had a baby. As she learnt to walk it was so loud that we did have to invoke the rules in our lease (owned share of freehold too) to lay the noise reducing underlay and carpet which made a massive difference. Like you say though, noise from neighbours is part of living in flats (and I did wear earplugs!!).

The newborn is a legend: sleeps peacefully all night and rarely cries, even during nappy changes! The rare times he cries in the night it doesn't even wake up DS in the room adjacent. And either way they haven't complained about baby noise.

and you'd be aware that they could just laugh and get their child to march to the grand old duke of York all day. aw don't be a knob @stilldoesntknowwhatshappening it was obvs not a serious suggestion

the rest of my post as you know was about talking to the neighbours since noise is a fact of life.

OP saw your updates - the only thing you can do is carry on carrying on, and be polite if not friendly.

Respond that you are taking all reasonable steps to minimise noise, but that their weed and fire pit smoke is putting your children's health and your newborn's life at risk and you expect that to stop.

All joking aside, this is absolutely the most sensible reply.

LongWhiskers14 's note is good - seriously, you're just as entitled to complain to them.

I've lived below 'noisy' neighbours before, and have been one. Hard floors and Victorian buildings just don't mix.

An upstairs neighbour sounded like he was stamping in clogs, and shifting wardrobes around. In reality, he was walking normally in outdoor shoes, and sliding storage boxes under his bed. The noise is amplified somehow, and is unbearable.

Our last house was Victorian too, and hard floored downstairs. I got a hell of a shock when I was feeding next door's cat for her and heard my kids rampaging through the wall - it sounded so loud.

The biggest thing we found to help was slippers - bare feet/socks are still making a louder impact. We were already a shoes-off house, but made it a compulsory slippers house and the noise was greatly reduced. Ideally ones with padded soles. Easy to get toddler styles of those, and it's easy to get into the habit.

I think you should carpet the front room .. as underlay +carpet generally has better sound insulation than rugs unusual for flat leases to allow wooden floors
If they don't have kids they aren't going to care your trying your best with baby/toddler so would leave put of text...

Maybe have a conversation with them ... or dh when you can go down and hear it..

Think woul

What do they expect you to do? I also have a 2 year old, they are mobile and like to play, pretty much constantly! Unless you go out the house during his waking hours or tie him to a chair I’m not really quite sure what they are anticipating you should do? If you do text I’d just send a polite message (leave out the earplugs!) just to say you are being as quiet as is physically possible for a family with a toddler, whilst you have sympathy with them there isn’t really much else you can do. Maybe mention you can hear the flat above too, so it’s likely the old building with poor noise insulation to blame.

It’d be different if the noise was music or the tv that can be turned down but you can’t turn down a toddler or normal noise such as walking around your home!

Noise when you buy a flat is something you just have to accept, you shouldn't have to walk on Egg shells or get a 2 year old to be quiet. I had a neighbour who comained about every single noise we made and didn't actually think about how noisy she was, so I started to complain back with every single noise she made that I then deemed inappropriate as she used to tell me, she soon shut up and stopped moaning as much