Not to invite her?

[creamcheeseandlox]

I'll try to summerise. Friend A and friend b. Friend A lives across the road and we are close as friends and also our family's. Her son is in my dd's class and we have known them since the kids were in reception. They are 10/11 now. Friend b is also a school mum living in the village. Her DD and my DD are best friends. Me and friend b have become quite close over the past few years because of this and we also socialise with their family etc. Me, friend b and our daughters go on girls day trips sometimes. Last term the kids did WW2 at school and friend b suggested going to Amsterdam to see Anne Frank's house just the 4 of us as a girls weekend away. I love this idea. Her DH drunkenly mentioned this to friend A over Xmas cue me making excuses as too why I hadn't mentioned it to her but she says she would possibly want to come with her ds. Friend B wants to book this trip and we have both discussed it and said that we would like it to be a girls trip and that having friend A there with her son would change the dynamic of it and also make the accomodation more complicated as we all couldn't share a room. Our dd's are really excited about it being a girlie trip away.

One side of me is thinking that I can go away with whomever I choose and I don't have to include friend A but I also feel.bad about it and don't want to seem like we are leaving her out etc and damage our friendship.

If the situation was turned and she said to me that she was going away with her son and a friend that also has a son then I wouldn't expect to come with my daughter as it would disrupt the balance.

I don't think iabu just to want to go away with a friend and her daughter but I can't help feeling bad about it.

Depends. Does her son get on well with your daughter? If so, yes invite them. If not, then dont but expect a fallout.

I wonder what the children would all think of the idea if they knew.

I hope it turns round and bites you in the bum.

How nasty.

Do you invite everyone of your friends or your children’s friends to every single thing you do? Even if your child just wants their best mate round for tea? Would you invite another friend’s child, even if your child just wanted that one friend over?

I’ve always discouraged the best friend idea, my kids have friends, they usually invite boys and girls for tea, I’ve never excluded a child because he’s a boy and my son has never been excluded either, he’s been to many parties where the others have been all girls.
DD has a friend *Jake and he’s been made welcome along with her girl friends.

The only reason OP gives is the child is a boy and therefore not ‘girly’ whatever that means to 10 year olds.

Just explain its not your trip to invite people to and if she's interested then to ask other friend as she's organising it. Tbh I'd be pissed off if a trip I'd organised was hijacked by someone I didn't really know that well.

Like PP it depends, if you often do things as a 3 then yes you're unkindly excluding her. If not and you just particularly fancy a small trip with just the four of you so you can all fit in one room etc. I think it's fine but to be kind to your other friend you could perhaps plan something else with her too (a night out etc). It doesn't feel nice to be left out. The argument about the boy changing the dynamic is just odd. It's not like you're all getting your hair done (some boys might enjoy this but at 11 most don't).

creamcheeseandlox You are absolutely not being unreasonable to want to go away with one friend and her child and not to have to invite another person simply because a third party mentioned it to another person!

I think possibly the mistake you made (IMHO) early on was in feeling bad for not inviting your other friend, and expressing that. What you maybe should have said is Friend B and I have planned a trip for our daughters to Amsterdam. full stop.

You don't need to invite friend A, with or without her son.

Why can't two girls go away on a holiday with their mums without another person coming?

Sadly, I too am a people please-er and may well end up inviting this other mum and her child simply because I hate anyone to feel left out! But actually, I think that would be wrong. I think if you want to make it girls only trip, do.

Just as if you planned a trip with A and didn't invite B it would be wrong for B to feel she had to be included.

I do understand about including friends etc, of course, but ultimately we can all have different relationships with different friends, and three mums instead of two or three kids instead of two will change the dynamic.

Any idea why friend B's husband felt the need to mention the trip to Friend A?

@creamcheeseandlox It's hardly like you're going away for a really pampering girly weekend at a spa is it?! I would say a boy of that age would be interested in a WW2 weekend as they learn about it at school and from Grandparents etc. I think you're just looking for excuses not to invite friend A as it's obvious you prefer friend B's company and that's it!

The argument about the boy changing the dynamic is just odd.

Changing the dynamic is a completely valid point-people post about it on here all the time-having a sibling over to play, people bringing their boyfriend out for drinks with the girls, people bringing their teen daughter to a mums’ night out.

The dynamic of three instead of two is a change, regardless of the sex of anyone. What is Friend B's husband suddenly decided he wanted to come too, is that OK, because you can't leave anyone out?

I dont think you're being unreasonable in thinking you can go away with whoever you like - of course you can - but you are being unreasonable with the whole gender dynamic crap tbh

YANBU, but I think maybe you are getting more worried about this than you need to.

The relevant factors are:

1. Friend B suggested it. It wasn't your idea. You have been invited to join her. You are not at liberty to invite others.

1. Your DD and Friend B's DD are best friends. Three is a crowd. Friend A's son may well feel lift out and, aside from Anne Frank's house, may want to different things from them.

I would avoid the subject, but if it comes up, just tell Friend A that it is a bit awkward because it was Friend B's suggestion because she thought the girls would enjoy a weekend away together and that by sharing a room between the 4 of you (presumably one of those rooms with 2 double beds) you could both save a bit on the cost of the trip. The girls are now really looking forward to a girls weekend. You would love to do something with Friend A another time.

"It's hardly like you're going away for a really pampering girly weekend at a spa is it?!" is that the only way two girls can have a weekend break, is it's really 'girlie' in nature? Surely it is possible for girls and their mums to go away and not necessarily to be about hair or make up or anything else.

To be honest the term 'girlie' can be used to describe anything involving girls.

YANBU at all.

I do get the "girlie weekend" bit. I wouldn't call it that, but maybe Mum/daughter trip - i.e. no Dads, no brothers, just the 4 of you together. It's nice, a bit of best friend bonding with the added bonus of being cheaper because you can share accommodation.

My DD and I have enjoyed time together away from our lads, as well it being nice for DSs and DH to do things together sometimes. That's not "ew, boys are gross" or "let's all go shopping" or other sexist rubbish, it's just a nice thing to do occasionally.

And yes, three adults and 3 kids does change things too. Pairs are easier, there's no excluding anyone. Also, DD and B's DD are best friends - including someone else they like but isn;'t very close to them both can be awkward.

I can understand A wanting to join you, but YANBU to want to keep it a small weekend away for the 4 of you.

Genevieva I think you have hit the nail on the head there.

I think I would not mention that friend A has a boy at all, just say it is planned and it is just the four of you then plan something else another time with A and her son.

Surely it depends how the trip has been explained to A as to whether YABU to exclude her.

"OP and B are taking the girls to visit the Anne Frank museum since they're studying WWII in history and are treating them to a girly weekend in Amsterdam to make the most of the visit."

"OP and B are taking the girls on a girly weekend to Amsterdam next month. The girls are so excited to go away together, we've planned a river cruise, shopping trip, fancy lunch as well as some sightseeing including the Anne Frank museum."

The first is that the trip is primarily an educational one and the fun "girly" activities are extras to make the most of being in Amsterdam. In this scenario I can see why Friend A would think it would be no trouble to invite themselves along, having a third child on an educational trip is not going to change the dynamic.

In the second scenario the trip is clearly being billed as a BFFs weekend away for the two girls, that will just so happen to include some educational sightseeing. Adding Friend A and her son would change the dynamic of the trip and therefore it would NBU to not invite her.

What are you going to do @creamcheeseandlox ?

I took my daughter and her best friend to see a show and to dinner in our nearest city last year. They’d done well in their exams and I thought they needed a treat. Should I have invited another girl in the class whose mum I’m friends with? What about girls from their primary? What about boys whose mums I’m friends with?

A line needs to be drawn. The two girls being great mates and wanting to do this is a good enough line for me.

Why were you making excuses as to why friend B hadn't invited friend A along? Sidestep that one immediately by suggesting friend A speaks to friend B as she was the one who planned the trip.

By you getting involved and making excuses, it looks like you trying to keep friend A and B separate from each other. Clearly this isn't the case if friend B's husband was drunk in friend A's presence. They have their own friendship with or without you being present.

YANBU, because it's overnight and involves accommodation it is relevant that A has a son. Sometimes he will miss out on friend gatherings because of his sex.

Recently DD missed out on a sleepover because she would have been the only girl and it wouldn't have been appropriate for her to stay overnight, so she went to the party and we collected her before the sleepover part.

If A is so desperate to go to Amsterdam, nothing to stop her booking her own accommodation for her and her son and meeting up with the rest of you for the Anne Frank house visit /lunches / whatever but doing their own thing the rest of the weekend if son / A is not interested in the other activities. But you shouldn't need to change your and B's plans to accommodate this.

Bit extreme muddling in this case as all of their parents would be there. It's not a sleepover is it. How difficult is it to get a 3 bedroom air b&b?

@Letseatgrandma

I think adding another person with a different relationship will always change the dynamic - especially as the two girls are close friends but I do find it odd that by the mere fact of him being a boy it will change the dynamic of a trip to do with WW1 is odd. I do think sometimes then boy-girl dynamics are artificially exaggerated which is a bit of a shame.

If Friend B initiated the Amsterdam trip and invited you along, and her DH mentioned the trip also to Friend A, then leave it with Friend B (and her DH) to invite who she wants and let them source accommodation around that.

If you initiated the trip, you can invite who you want. However, I would organise another trip with Friend A at some point (without Friend B).

@Crustycrab, but as a PP pointed out with just the four of them they could get away with one room with two double beds, or a double and bunks family room. An extra two people changes that to a minimum of two rooms, plus the boy won't be able to share with the two girls or either of their mothers, which means A and her son will have to share the second room by themselves.

Would they expect OP and B to bear some of their cost for that as it's likely to cost them more for that room than the others will pay for half of their shared room.