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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Women and fox hunting

262 replies

greentreefrog · 04/01/2020 09:59

Name change for this but regular poster.
Seeing all the fox hunting activity on social media over Christmas and New Year mainly the shocking incident in North Yorkshire where a hunt supporter repeatedly hit the hunt protesters car with a dead fox.
There was a few women and young children in the group supporting the hunt, why? I don't understand how anyone can support chasing terrified animals and letting dogs tear them apart. Even if they dont take part themselves they must know if their partners go out 'lamping' or badger baiting. How they can live with themselves.
AIBU to think these women are brainwashed by their partners?

OP posts:
happycamper11 · 04/01/2020 11:03

I bet the queen used to hunt and I doubt the duke of Edinburgh instructed her to do so. I doubt Princess Anne or Zara Phillips were forced by their partners of brainwashed. For the most part, hunting these days is drag hunting anyway with no fox involved- many of the dogs used wouldn't have the first clue how to catch a fox. I understand there are still a significant number who flout the rules but I don't see how the women partaking in this are any different to the men and why they'd need to have been anymore brainwashed.

Biancadelrioisback · 04/01/2020 11:16

My friend does it. I'm very against it. But she is my friend. I like most things about her but we disagree on a few points, one being fox hunting, so we just don't discuss it. She takes part because her mum did. Her mum did it because her mum did. No men involved.

Christmaspug · 04/01/2020 11:23

I think your getting confused op
Your blaming men for women’s choices
A bit like the the women can’t be a pedo /don’t abuse children
Women can be just as vile as men
Anyone fox hunting is a nasty piece of work

backinthebox · 04/01/2020 11:41

Interestingly, I was out with female friends last night, all of us have hunted in the past and some at the moment, and none of us have horsey husbands who have the slightest interest. We are capable of free thought and don’t need a man to tell us what to do.

We hunt for the thrill of riding cross country in a group of of friends. One of our group was a former master of foxhounds for a hunt where one of the men has just been convicted. We were all appalled at the activity that led to the conviction. Unfortunately since the ban hunting has been populated by both people who just want to ride and those who are on a hellbent path to flout the law, and it makes for an unhappy mix. I go for the thrill of riding my horse cross country, to chat with my friends and because it’s a good excuse for a glass of port at 11 o’clock in the morning! The sound of hounds picking up a scent and following a line is thrilling - the sense of excitement they feel passes on to the riders and horses, but it could just as easily be an artificial scent that they follow and the members of the mounted field for the most part would know no difference.

Many people ask why riders don’t drag hunt instead and still continue to go with foxhounds. The reasons for this are many and complicated, and I’ll try and set them out here.

Hunts that describe themselves as drag packs, bloodhound packs or foxhound packs operate in similar but slightly different ways.

A drag pack will lay a very clear and obvious trail of a strong artificial scent over a predetermined route or ‘line,’ however the hounds are secondary to main event. The primary purpose of this kind of sport is to gallop as fast as possible over as many big fences as possible. The fences are pre-built and are often huge. The speed at which the hounds follow the scent determines the speed at which the mounted field ride. The trail is usually laid by quad bike so breaks between lines are just long enough for horse and rider to get their breath back before being off again, and the day is often short. It’s a dangerous sport and one of the masters of our local pack has been banned by his wife after breaking his neck twice out draghunting. It is not a sport suited to novice or nervous riders or children but for capable and competent riders on a good horse it is thrilling and addictive.

Bloodhounds hunt ‘the clean boot,’ ie a runner with no artificial scent. At the meet the hounds are given the opportunity to meet the runner and get to know their scent, then the runner is given a head start while the mounted field have a good chat over some sausage rolls and a glass of port. The route the runner takes is pre-determined, again over a line which will include jumps and natural obstacles. The runner’s job is to attempt to mimic a quarry which is initially not being hunted by a pack of hounds, so meandering over the countryside with several opportunities to try and shake the pack off, eg by crossing through a river or giving several false leads before taking off again on the line. As the hounds are likely to catch up the runner takes a more direct route along the line so that the speed of the hounds increases and the mounted field ride faster. The aim is that the hounds catch the runner just as they finish the line. A good runner will set an interesting challenge. The huntsman will not know where the lines are set and the field will have the opportunity to ‘watch hounds work’ but sniffing about for the scent of the runner. It is a steadier sport than drag hunting but more consistently quicker than foxhounds. The fences vary in height and are more suitable for novice riders (although there is at least one pack in the uk that has a reputation for huge fences) and it’s a good choice for children because the runner, if asked nicely at the start, will let you have a look at their map so you know where they will end up. The recovery time of the runner determines the length of the break between lines, and often more sausage rolls and port is produced at this point.

The farmers and landowners that are happy for draghunts and bloodhound packs to cross their land usually have a very close relationship with the hunt and a small number of venues almost with set courses are used each season. There is no benefit to the landowner other than the pleasure of involvement in the sport and an amount of prestige.

Foxhound packs are a varied bunch and each pack is trying to pick its way through the Hunting with Dogs act to follow it in a way they deem appropriate. This means for the several hundred packs, you’ve got several hundred interpretations. The hunts are generally welcomed by farmers that have had a tradition relationship with hunts for reasons such as vermin control or fallen stock collection, but there are also many farming families (which can be extensive and cover vast areas in some regions) where if one member hunts the whole family area can be opened up to the hunt. Some farmers still expect vermin control or stock collection in return for allowing the hunt to cross their land. Fences are sometimes constructed between fields but for a lot of riders the main part of the day is watching hounds work rather than galloping over big fences. For many, the excitement is in not knowing where they are going and using their riding skill and their horses’ ability to cover whatever country they are riding over in the most efficient and appropriate way. For some this will mean jumping a hedge, for others this will mean following a detour to find open gates to go through. As a result of this approach, following foxhounds is usually within the ability level of children, novices and older riders. Often there will be a jumping and a non-jumping field master to cater for both groups. It often takes the hounds some time to find the scent they are meant to be following, so there are plenty of standing still breaks, and a day following foxhounds will cover 4-5 hours vs the 2hrs max spent following drag or blood hounds.

The controversy arises in how each individual pack chooses to interpret the Hunting Act. The law was poorly written. Tony Blair freely admits now he allowed through an act on an activity he knew nothing about. It allows for the flushing of prey animals using dogs in certain circumstances, but not the killing of them by dogs. However the methods allowed by the Hunting Act are not the most effective and in some cases frankly bizarre (no hunt in the UK had ever even considered using a Golden eagle to hunt a fox till the Hunting Act listed it as an acceptable way to kill one! Now there are several hunts with their own eagle.) As a result some hunts are still trying to hunt foxes within the law. Other hunts are not hunting foxes but trying to recreate the way a day would have gone once using the laying of fox-based scent trails in a way that mimics the natural wanderings of a fox through its habitat. The pack I follow send a rider ahead with a sock soaked in scent on the end of a hunting whip lash to drag it along the ground on and off, in an effort to lay a trail the hounds will have to work to follow. Sending a rider to lay the trail rather than a quad or runner means you end up with a trail that is followable by the remainder of the mounted field.

In virtually every hunt I know there are people who would prefer to hunt real foxes within the law and people who want nothing to do with it and just want to follow a trail in an enjoyable way. As in many walks of life, without clearer guidance there will always be a lot of different opinions and ways of going about things. Had the Hunting Act been made clearer many of the borderline (both over the line and just within it) activity going on now would not be occurring. For the average hunt follower the nature and extent of the way activities are conducted is not obvious. All hunts, in order to operate, have to declare that they are hunting within the law. How the law is interpreted and followed is down to the masters and staff of each individual hunt and the mounted field is not privy to any of this. It is difficult to know if the hunt you are following is clean or not, until there is evidence it is not, by which point it’s a bit late.

I fall into the camp of those who would like to see any situation involving a prey animal and hounds in the same space ended. The law allowed to many fudge factors. In order for hunting to continue it has to be squeaky clean and acceptable to the greater population. Unfortunately there are others with different opinions, and while various political parties mention it every election time, it’s not really a priority for any one of them to change things.

My apologies for the very long post, but I think that many people are not fully familiar with hunting. Having been ‘sabbed’ before whilst out following bloodhounds with my children (‘you should be ashamed of yourself for what you’re doing!’ ‘Why? Is there something shameful about chasing Sharon’s husband across a field?) I’d like there to be more understanding and and certainly more drive to take hunting forward in a modern and sustainable way.

Hearthside · 04/01/2020 12:13

Country born and bred and still live rurally .I also work in a area that is very hunt supportive and when you meet them on the narrow rural roads i drive they are the most arrogant , rude people you can ever wish to meet .Boxing day they caused me to run late with my calls because them and their supporters act they own the road. My involves people so i need to get there on time as much as possible.
Onto the actual hunting they are cruel , sadistic bastards .I have kept chickens so when they spout that argument it doesn't wash .I know someone whose cat was torn apart by the hounds .They don't chase foxes .Really they were witnessed chasing a fox across a field. They lie , terriers on the back of quads in boxes hidden so they can send them down holes.Sorry boils my blood Angry.

MrsToothyBitch · 04/01/2020 12:25

All the women I know who hunt/follow the hunt or shoot do it because THEY want to. If they're coupled up, they've been riding, hunting and shooting longer than they've been with their partner, for the most part. Mutual hobby has even brought them together in a couple of cases.

People who take no active interest wave their partner off for the day, just like people who have no interest in football, rugby, am-dram, painting, fishing, dance, being in a choir or any other hobby cycling do when their partner takes part in those activities.

KarmaStar · 04/01/2020 12:31

Totally agree with @Disillusioneddaisy .absolutely.

messolini9 · 04/01/2020 12:32

AIBU to think these women are brainwashed by their partners?

Of course that must be it OP.
Because women are non-autonomous symbiotes, with no personal agency or capacity for individual decision making.

Cheers sister. With imbecilic thinking like this going on, who needs male misogyny?

easyandy101 · 04/01/2020 12:33

AIBU to think these women are brainwashed by their partners?

wut?

Newmetoday · 04/01/2020 12:33

Women can be bastards as well, OP. I know loads

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 04/01/2020 12:40

Women taking part are not brainwashed, they’re just as hideous as their male counterparts. Sod them all for enjoying this cruel travesty of a sport.

stopgap · 04/01/2020 12:54

I used to ride, and knew people that hunted. They were obsessed with their horses, pet dogs, cats etc. but chose to—in my mind—ignore the realities of the hunt for the social aspect/benefits to their horse’s education as an eventer, team chaser etc.

MoggyP · 04/01/2020 13:02

I don't think sex-linked brainwashing is involved at all, so YABU

Even when you think a decision despicable, it does not follow that only those acting under duress or undue influence would make it.

Women do not inherently lack capacity.

SuperFurryDoggy · 04/01/2020 13:15

Really interesting post @backinthebox

Whatthefunk · 04/01/2020 13:19

Ss someone's who's worked for a hunting family, trust me, women are every bit as involved in the sport as men, and completely by their own volition...

Pop2017 · 04/01/2020 13:20

I am totally against fox Hunting but I know plenty of women and children who are brought up with it and enjoy it (unsure why, like I said I’m against). They may have been brought up with it in their family too and often marry men into the same traditions.

I don’t think gender really comes into it here.

WhatshouldIdo123 · 04/01/2020 13:28

Children are indoctrinated into it at a young age to ensure it continues. Women were involved in the trowing of love fox cubs into hound kennels last year. There are plenty of female MFH's. Women are heavily involved in 'stewarding' hunts to ensure nobody gets close enough to see what's going on. Women have also been convicted of violent conduct at hunt meets. A hunt cunt can be male or female.

Sabs refers to the lowlife subsection who sabotage a hunt, often in unpleasant ways,which can be dangerous: eg jumping out at passing horses to spook them Grin Grin Biscuit

Butchyrestingface · 04/01/2020 13:28

There was a few women and young children in the group supporting the hunt, why?

Men don’t have the monopoly on being sadistic, bloodthirsty cunts, although I grant you, there appears to be vastly more of them.

Your question is U. It stands to reason that if you enjoy blood sports, you’ll probably want a life partner who tolerates, if not shares, your values.

It would be something of a drag to go out to saddle up for your usual Saturday morning jolly japes, only to discover the ol’ lentil-knitting, eco-warrior ball-and-chain has de-shoed your horse and tranquilised the hounds overnight. 🐴 🐶

BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2020 13:29

"AIBU to think these women are brainwashed by their partners?"

YABVU and ridiculous 🤦🏻‍♀️

Women can choose to hunt, shoot, fish, be members of the Tory party, Britain First, the IRA etc just as men can

Butchyrestingface · 04/01/2020 13:31

Personally, I think people who eat eggs from caged hens are far worse smile

I fucking hate the Grand National. I always hope those twats in their big flouncy dresses at the races fall in a deep puddle and drown.

Zenithbear · 04/01/2020 13:35

Women who hunt are the same as men who hunt - psychopathic cunts.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2020 13:37

"jumping out at passing horses to spook them"

They are indeed lowlife when they risk serious injury to horse, dogs - or people
If a hunt is illegal, call the police and let them deal with it

backinthebox I'm surprised that drag hunting hasn't been completely revamped, to make it as safe for riders as fox-hunting
It seems ridiculous that an alternative sport that doesn't hurt animals is made less popular like this

btw, I've read that some hunt saboteurs disrupt drag hunts too - why ?

Mypathtriedtokillme · 04/01/2020 13:38

They enjoy hunting and riding fast.
They have free will and are able to make there own choices.

I’ve hunted since I was at pony club. It’s fun, fast and a wee bit scary.
I’m not in the UK so no foxes (but where I live now they are invasive vermin) but drag hunting or hares. (Also introduced invasive pests)

Ellisandra · 04/01/2020 13:40

I’d love to join in and post, but my husband is out. Just placemarking so I can find the again when he comes home and ask him what my opinion is.

Hmm
MelroseHigginbottom · 04/01/2020 13:41

A female IL of mine hunts, she also has a dog who she takes out to kill foxes etc and it once killed a pigeon right there on the footpath on a nice day out with my newborn. I hate it. Sadly cruelty comes in both sexes.