To want to see my friend without her very young children?

[Festivefrolicsnextyear]

My friend has a four year old and a two year old. Since she had them, I’ve seen her without them twice for a concert that tickets were already booked for. I’ve never seen her without both children since she had the youngest.

I have kids myself and I know how these threads go - she’s married, with a supportive husband, both her parents and sister are alive and live locally, her PILs are also alive and live locally. I’ve been at their house due to go out for lunch with her dh there and watching telly and she’s still packed the children up to come out with us.

They are lovely kids. But they are still young kids. They walk slowly. They need naps. They interrupt constantly.

I think it’s just a fixed habit by now - they go where she goes.

Is there a polite way of saying ‘shall we do X and don’t bring the kids?’

Switswoo81, I think it depends how frequently you can get someone to mind them. I get it maybe once every 3 months. DH works full time, my mum will have the kids only really when it's a special occasion like a birthday, so choosing coffee with a mate would be at the expense of having a " date night" with the DH.
So I'd rather meet for coffee with the kids in tow, and yes some of my friendships with childfree friends have suffered for it, but then it's one of the sacrifices I have to make for having 4 kids, 2 with additional needs.

I have young kids and I love time away from them. I much prefer spending time with my childless friends than my mum friends tbh.

It is not unreasonable to want to meet up without her kids but at the end of the day it depends on whether she wants to or not. I suspect you are nervous about asking because you know that she drags the kids along as she likes being with them.

Sorry OP i dont understand why you can't ever do an evening? If it is because you work every single evening that's your restriction, not hers. She might be on another thread moaning about a friend who won't ever go out in the evenings.

If you don't want to sit in with her DH, go out out! Pop to the pub, go for dinner, go to the cinema etc

Wtf?? Why don’t I sound like a very nice friend? Do you routinely hang out with four year olds?

You’re not a terrible friend or a bad person.

But your friend wants to bring/hang out with her kids - that’s pretty clear from your OP. She has every option to leave them and doesn’t want to. I doubt you pointing out she ‘has people to leave them with’ or asking to see her alone will go down well as there’s a very real possibility she’d rather spend the day with them than you!

I’m afraid you either get on with it or distance yourself. You want your independent friendship but the kids are her priority and you are just an occasional visitor in their little bubble 👍🏻

A friend had her DD at 20, the rest of our friendship group were regular 20 year olds uninterested in hanging out with a small child all the time or getting up early to spend Saturday morning in a soft play nightmare of screaming kids and constant interruptions. We tried to be ‘subtle’ by inviting her to evening meals and non child friendly events but she would either complain, or try to bring her DD.

It wasn’t her fault, neither was it ours but our priorities were too different and neither really willing to compromise. So the friendship just ended.

I know on the rare occasions I get family members to watch the kids for me, I prefer to do something with my DH. I wouldn't use it to go for a coffee with a friend
Maybe so, but wouldn't you ask DH to watch the kids for a couple of hours while you go for coffee with a friend?"

I totally understand this. I have a 2 and 4 yr old (husband definitely not at home though, he left 2 years ago....) but when he was at home, he never had the children, or just the one child before the youngest was born.

I don't have childcare to enable me to go out child free. My mum and MIL each help out 1 day a week. My ex has them one weekend day , but not at night, and in all honesty that weekend day is quite precious to me, and it's not often I arrange to go somewhere or see people on it.

While she has all these people around her, maybe none of them are very helpful. Definitely suggest it though. She might need (and appreciate) a bit of a push!

I work full time but I still go out in the evenings during the week. Can't you meet up for a drink one weekday evening?

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland - because she won’t go out, we are both knackered in the week, weekends are family time. And what’s the point of the cinema when I want to TALK to my friend?

@Festivefrolicsnextyear That's weird I have kids and work full time and still go out in the evenings - surely that's when most adults go out without children?
If a friend with children kept inviting me to do child friendly things in the day time I would probably also take my kids!
You expect to spend time with your children on a Saturday afternoon, surely? And go out with adults after they're in bed?

YummyChipCurryDip, no I wouldn't. He's in work all week so when he's off we go out together.

I think the problem is that if you’ve got the sort of friendships where you do go out in the evening it’s difficult to understand friendships that don’t. We never have much and not at all since she had her kids bar that concert.

I don’t think it’s unfair to want to see ur friend without the children. I like to take my children most places I go too but I appreciate my friends don’t always want them there so I can be available on my own if that’s what my friends ask. Just ask her she’s probably enjoy some me time as well

Yanbu.

I hope this isn't offensive, but does she maybe not value your friendship as much as you do? I always make time for my friends without husband and dcs. The conversation you just described between you and her with her husband there sounds like she doesn't really have much time for you maybe? That doesn't make her a bad person. Who isn't busy? But if she really wanted to she could prioritise you, but she doesn't. That makes me think you are more invested in the friendship that she is maybe?

I had 2 very good friends have their first child within 6 months of each other. One of them made an effort to see me (and our other friends) without her child on a regular basis...but I enjoyed seeing him at other times. The other friend was ALWAYS with her child, and i ended up seeing her less and less so now we see each other about 4 times a year (instead of 12). She also didn't pay attention to anything anyone else was saying as she was just constantly fussing over her child. And I dont mean when the child was crying or needed anything, she just wasn't interested in anything else.

Female friendships are incredibly important to me and I feel lucky that my other friend is still exactly the same person, but it's really affected the other friendship. I am an adult and want adult conversations with my friends, without constant interruptions.

As another poster said, I'd be interested to know if she wants her children there all the time, or doesn't but feels she has no other choice. Knowing that would determine my next steps.

Yes if you’re going out, MrsBricks - if you’re meeting a friend not so much. If I suggested the pub in the evening she wouldn’t go. I could only do Saturday or Sunday nights in any case.

I don’t blame you for feeling the way you do but honestly I don’t think there’s much you can do. Ou mit well get her along for a drink/spa/grown up lunch out but it will be a one-off and then it’ll be back to the kids being there every time.
There’s no feasibly nice way of telling someone to leave their kids at home when they meet you. If they are so unaware as to choose and prefer to bring them along to every occasion, they will only take your appeal as an insult. Imo.
It would be great if she had a lightbulb moment but I think it’s unlikely.

Oh I’m with you OP. However lovely they are, at that age they dominate. There is nothing wrong and everything healthy about wanting (needing?) adult time.

I don’t think what you suggested saying sounds mean at all. I would get an activity at first where kids can’t come - spa afternoon, afternoon tea somewhere nice - and use that as an opportunity to say ‘isn’t this lovely without the kids? We should make it a regular event’ and take things from there. Ultimately though, if she won’t or can’t, I’d stick to your theatre jaunts with her. There’s no way I’d want to spend my precious time off from full time work and my own kids being with someone else’s.

No, I think you’re right, sober, I think I’m fit in amongst other chores. But it is frustrating, as she suggested meeting the other day and we ended up maybe talking for about seven minutes.

*you might well

Even if weekends are family time, dont you ever go out on a saturday night to see friends when your kids are in bed? Sometimes my DH does and I'm home with the kids, sometimes I do and he's home so we don't need to pay a sitter.

It sounds to me like you are both as restricted as each other, you are knackered/skint so don't want to go out of an evening, she prefers to spend day time with her family.

Perhaps while you both have young families you just don't have quite so much time for friends.

Sober makes a...well, sobering point.
She could be right.

If going out in the evening isn't an option at all then I think you're stuck, OP.

I’m as positive as I can be that she does want them there gallus, I’d bet my life savings on it.

I was 100% on your side until you refused to even consider the evening. I work full-time with a toddler and I guard my weekend day time with him quite jealously, but try and make sure I catch up with friends in the evening every couple of weeks. If a friend wouldn't contemplate the evening then either I'd bring DS or I wouldn't see them much (to be clear, I would see them sometimes - I wouldn't consciously cut them out - but a lot less often).

Yes, I know a few people like that; they fit you in between eleventy million other things they have on that day. I do sometimes think it isn't always worth the bother of getting out to meet them in those circumstances. Obviously that depends on many different things though and sometimes it's fine and makes sense.