To want to see my friend without her very young children?

[Festivefrolicsnextyear]

My friend has a four year old and a two year old. Since she had them, I’ve seen her without them twice for a concert that tickets were already booked for. I’ve never seen her without both children since she had the youngest.

I have kids myself and I know how these threads go - she’s married, with a supportive husband, both her parents and sister are alive and live locally, her PILs are also alive and live locally. I’ve been at their house due to go out for lunch with her dh there and watching telly and she’s still packed the children up to come out with us.

They are lovely kids. But they are still young kids. They walk slowly. They need naps. They interrupt constantly.

I think it’s just a fixed habit by now - they go where she goes.

Is there a polite way of saying ‘shall we do X and don’t bring the kids?’

Is she allowed her own life? Does she socialise with other people as an adult, away from her DC?
Either it's too much hassle to come home to a sulky DH after he has had to parent his children for a couple of hours or is her DH rubbish at looking after his own kids (on purpose).
You don't know what goes on behind closed doors, people think my DP is such a smiley happy bloke who adores our DD. He's not, the sulks for going out on my own are awful and he's just a performance parent when we are with friends.
She may not feel comfortable telling you that, only my absolute best friend knows about my DP.

Sorry, we x posts, OP, but my point stands. He doesn't have to be an abuser to - put diplomatically - struggle with the notion of being an equal parent.

YANBU. I have 2 children under 5 and I simply cannot concentrate on a conversation in their company. In my home, in someone else’s home or worse in public. I’m constantly getting interrupted, losing my train of thought, worried about their behaviour and losing focus.

I sacrifice weekend ‘family’ time to see friends that I want to have a decent conversation with or do something for me and leave the kids with DH.

Occasionally a friend will suggest I bring DC so they can give Birthday or Christmas presents. Otherwise I’m a child free zone for my own sanity!

I have a couple of friends who are attached to their DC. It totally changes the dynamic of any meet up. With these friends I see them less and less because seeing them feels like a bit of a waste. I know that sounds harsh, but I can’t get a decent conversation going with them, have to watch what I say around the children and feel like I know them less well as a result.

Personally, I’d suggest a child free catch up and if she declines reduce the frequency of meet ups. It doesn’t sound like you are getting much from the friendship as it stands and she doesn’t seem willing to flex her approach at all.

Catte I’ve known them both a long, long time, he’s a hands on dad (as is mine tbf)

I honestly think it’s a combination of habit and not really being too arsed whether she sees me or not.

And tbh thinking about it when she is out with me she only talks to the children! So I don’t think it’s a marriage thing, it’s just her focus is 100% on the children.

I think you have to be blunt (but in a nice way)

I always brought DS with me when going anywhere with my mum. Until one day she said that it would be nice for it just to be the two of us: so she said DH could watch DS while we went for lunch and shopping

So you work full time but want to see friends without kids. When do you see your own kids?

Oh my god, imagine that. A mother who has the temerity to work AND who wants a social life. BURN HER

Yes she is BU for always bringing her kids along when they have a perfectly good father who could have them.

But you are also BU for discounting things like evenings, which makes you seem even more inflexible than she is. There is zero reason why you can't go out in the evening either after her, or before if their dad does bed. Its not a wild night out, just a few drinks. You can still be in your jammies with some hot coco by 11pm if you want. And yes in work and have small ones to.

She sounds boring, so I'd definitely bother with her less!

Well, I don’t know about a social life, tbf! Just a couple of hours!

11pm is a very late night for me during the week, tbh, hug. And it would be for her. And like I say, I can understand her saying no to that.

I do agree with PP that the wony way you're going to resolve this is being (nicely) direct. Just say, 'I'd really love to meet up without the children sometime. Why don't we try and pick a Saturday when our dh are around to go and have lunch at X?' (for example). Don't add any flannel about how you love the children's company, you know it's not easy etc. Her response will (probably) solve the puzzle for you.

Wony? WTF? Only way.

I don’t think you are a rubbish friend at all and I do agree with you that it’s probably habit for her. I have 4 very young kids and I think it’s absolutely essential to have some adult/kid-free time with friends. I think she would welcome the opportunity but maybe it just hasn’t occurred to her!

As someone with children myself, I can see why you miss her and would be frustrated at not being able to finish a sentence when you’re out with the kids. Can you not just ask her our for dinner? Say ‘I’d love to see you for dinner, would [Husband] be able to put them to bed’? Then the children would definitely not be invited!

Probably she has a DH prob too. I have a generally lovely husband but only recently has he had the confidence (and kick up the arse from me) to regularly do bedtime by himself.

That's not what I meant. Just that I want to see my kids when I am not at work. If I see friends it is with my kids, or in the evenings. I still count that as a social life. I just think, as others have said, that the OP has not considered that she is quite inflexible, having to see her friend at a certain time of day and week, and without kids.

I can definitely try the dinner suggestion, it would be infrequent though due to costs.

OP, no, you’re not a bad parent.

I just don’t like leaving my children when I could be with them. Full-time work, and work travel, take me away quite enough.

My friends who ‘value me as a person’, refraction, are welcome to value me in the context of my various obligations. I’ve never refused to be at the end of the phone when said friend had a man crisis. But I still don’t want to spend a weekend away from my kids.

On reading this -

Me - I saw Mary at Tesco the other day and she’s retiring from ABC company next year.
Her - oh, is she - hey, Jim, have you packed Bobby’s bag for tomorrow?
Him - yes, it’s all in hand
Her - thanks. Oh, what were you saying?

• she just isn't very interested in you. I'm really sorry - that's a horrible feeling when it's an old and treasured friendship - but I think she's lost interest in you, and I suspect maybe all her friends. It'll be her loss if so, but I wouldn't put yourself out for her.

I don’t think that’s fair poetry, I’ve been tolerating the kids outings for years now, literally. I can’t help working in the week!

I'm not sure why evenings is such an issue. It seems like the obvious solution tbh. I work full time and am up at 6:30 every day but I can manage the occasional drink after work. It's not a wild night out till the pubs close. These days we tend to do dinner and a glass of wine and I'm home by 10.

I know I’m not a bad parent mammaries but um thanks.

I wouldn’t ever personally spend a weekend away from my kids but 11 o clock till 1 o clock on a Saturday say isn’t really falling into that category is it?

Evenings aren’t ‘such an issue’ euro but she doesn’t want to and neither do I!

11 o clock to 1 o clock on a Saturday sounds like prime family time to me.

A couple of hours every other weekend would be loads for me to ask DH to do as he doesn’t have many things he needs me to look after them for.
Also you’re assuming you’re her only friend or family member!

What reason does she give for not doing evenings? Why can’t you have a cup of tea at hers in the evening rather than a big night out?
I may have missed that detail.