To want to see my friend without her very young children?

[Festivefrolicsnextyear]

My friend has a four year old and a two year old. Since she had them, I’ve seen her without them twice for a concert that tickets were already booked for. I’ve never seen her without both children since she had the youngest.

I have kids myself and I know how these threads go - she’s married, with a supportive husband, both her parents and sister are alive and live locally, her PILs are also alive and live locally. I’ve been at their house due to go out for lunch with her dh there and watching telly and she’s still packed the children up to come out with us.

They are lovely kids. But they are still young kids. They walk slowly. They need naps. They interrupt constantly.

I think it’s just a fixed habit by now - they go where she goes.

Is there a polite way of saying ‘shall we do X and don’t bring the kids?’

Why does it matter?!

Kids can be profoundly boring and monopolise everything. Read the OP.

And crystal, I know, but that’s quite unpleasant, when you think about it. I’ve got kids myself and I work full time as well which is one reason I was a bit pissed off in all honesty the other day as I wasted a day of my holiday. Luckily I had to go into town anyway.

I would suggest an activity that clearly excludes children. My mum friends and I do this sometimes. We have lots of coffee with kids but also arrange to go to a pub or out for dinner or to see a film. Try one of those? You could just say hey why don't we go to XXX for a drink next week one evening?

But piggy are you saying then that on a Saturday if you were nipping to town for a couple of hours and meeting a friend while you were there you’d go through the palava of hauling them in and out of the car and all the related paraphernalia and then talk to the kids for two hours ignore your friend when you could have just left them at home!

Plus, if you maintain that attitude you might find you don’t have many friends in the years to come, although I suppose a lot of people make ‘mum’ friends so maybe you would.

Does she generally lack self awareness?

I have a friend who will put her phone on the table if we go out and take calls from her 19 year old daughter. Full blown calls, perhaps 10 minutes long. I just sit there.

We recently had planned a shopping trip to Bath with another friend, so three of us. I was looking forward to it, we planned cocktails and shopping. Then at the last minute she texted to ask if it was ok if she brought said daughter. I didn’t think it was ok at all. I knew daughter would become focus of all attention, the dynamic would shift massively. I don’t have much in common with her daughter, I was going out with friends.

But what could I say?

No self awareness. No ability to see the situation from another’s point of view.

You are not a bad friend in the slightest - I have a 4 and nearly 1 year old and it would drive me a bit mad if my mates brought their kids out all the time! YANBU.

This annoys me too. I have a friend who has a 2 year old, and from the day the child could crawl I don't think I've reached the end of a sentence when in their company. I saw them this week and gave up after an hour - made my excuses and left.

Does she work full time? I've got 2 young kids and when I was back at work between them, i rarely managed to fit in time with friends during the day as that time was for my son - he was in childcare all week, i wanted to see him myself. Can you meet her in the evenings when the children are in bed? Or meet in the week for a workday lunch?

My 'd'h was pretty useless when my were little and it was therefore easier to just take them than field the phone calls about what to feed them etc, then come home and deal with the mess and sulks that I'd left him to parent his own children. I suspect that's what is happening here, it's just easier to do it all yourself if that's what you're used to. Does she work? If she doesn't I think it's quite easy to assume all responsibility for your children all of the time, even if it makes no sense.
Definitely make some child free suggestions and see how she reacts? I'd imagine she feels she needs to be at home for bedtime.

Yanbu. I would use child free time to go for coffee with a friend. My friendships are very important to me and will be there when my children are teenagers and don't want to spend that much time with me. My husband has friends too that he feels no guilt about watching a match with .
My children are the same age as your friends and are not fun in cafe s shopping centres etc.
I understand bringing a very small baby but not at this age.

You sound like a nice friend to me. Two child free occasions in 4 years isn’t a lot.

How about suggesting a spa day? “Friend, it’s been awesome getting to know your kids but I’d love to have a day hanging out as just us. Is there any way it could be managed?”

@Lipperfromchipper did you read any of the short OP?? Yes the friend has support. Yes it matters as kids interrupt and change the dynamic of any get together. I love my kids but my friends don't need to love spending time with them too.

Totally agree with you. God knows why she wouldn’t want to have some child free time if she has a perfectly capable husband at home.

It's a tricky one. A small group of us (4 - all mothers and long-standing friends) would go out once a month for a child-free girlie lunch, but one would always turn up with her little one who would then be banging on the table and all the things a normal little one does, but it drove the rest of us mad. She wouldn't take the hint, so eventually we all stopped going.

You are not being unreasonable. Kid-free time out with adult company is necessary to keep us sane!

Can you not suggest a night out... cinema for adult movie, theatre which couldn’t include kids? Mid week evening so no encroaching on family time. Or if you get birthday gifts buy her tickets etc? As you said She probably isn’t thinking and if she does it once then she’ll be ok. Good luck

Yanbu. Definitely not. You are not a bad friend.

@chuck7 I got distracted to be honest. Sorry. But just because her parents and PILS live nearby doesn’t mean they will babysit. 🤷‍♀️

Does she seem flustered/irritated by the interruptions etc when you're out? It maybe that she does want them there? Has she ever said anything about finding it hard to be apart from them?

She doesn’t work full time, I do though, so I can’t go round in the evenings and to be honest that would be quite uncomfortable as her DH would be around and he’s a lovely bloke but even then the dynamic changes so you get this:

Me - I saw Mary at Tesco the other day and she’s retiring from ABC company next year.
Her - oh, is she - hey, Jim, have you packed Bobby’s bag for tomorrow?
Him - yes, it’s all in hand
Her - thanks. Oh, what were you saying?

Plus I do work full time, you can’t encroach on the holy grail that is weekend family time so what can you do? It’s daytime weekends and holidays. But the kids are always always there.

Why haven't you invited her to do something obviously child-free like pub/dinner in the evening or cinema?

If you're only suggesting child friendly meet ups then maybe she just assumes you expect the children to come?

Our kids are a bit older (9-19) but even when they were small my oldest friend & I had a child free day/evening out every year in the run up to Christmas, it's something we did pre-kids & it's something we have carried on.

We also do a variety of things without the kids - coffee/shows/shopping etc - now that the girls are older, we sometimes enjoy their company so we invite them along to a few things we know they'll enjoy but at the same time have no qualms about saying "nope it's proper adults only". I think this is part of the reason our almost 40 year friendship is still going strong - friendship is like any relationship you have to make time for it.

I also have friends who can't/won't/don't leave their kids (& sometimes husbands ) & I just don't see them very often because it's not enjoyable spending time with them having kids/husbands butting in every 5 seconds & dictating where we can go or eat etc.

I don't think you're being unreasonable OP but how you put it across depends on your friendship & how you think she'll react.

But they can and they do lipper. I’m not necessarily suggesting that she should use them but she does have that option. I don’t think she should - to me, I’m just constantly wondering why she doesn’t leave them at home with their dad, but like I say, I do think it’s just sheer force of habit.

OP I understand that you feel it would be rude to ask for childfree outings but your friend is equally being rude by bringing them to every meeting and expecting you to be ok with it.

To posters who said she may not want to be away from them, good grief, do they not go to bed, does she not sit and enjoy quiet time with her DH.

Because I work full time MrsBricks and I have my own kids, I can’t just be going out to the pub or the cinema without being skint and knackered.

It’s my own fault really, I should have raised this far earlier, but it’s difficult as they were both breastfed so then obviously you can’t go out without them, and then it becomes an ingrained habit.