To not want them to call me mum?

[littlejalapeno]

It started with the midwives. They preferred to call me mum than use my name when talking to me. I thought well I’m not your mum but you’re probable very busy and it’s easier than remembering names so fine for the 9 months we see each other. But now the bloody health visitor is doing it. I’m not her mum, I’m my baby’s mum, and I get the vibes they’re not doing it to be friendly but to pull rank. AIBU to not want them to call me mum?

I don't understand the perception that we should love being called Mm because it's something to be proud of, there's no higher rank etc. Being a mother is a biological function that is achievable in virtually all species. Sure, I love being a mum because I love my children, but I'm much prouder of being myself than of being a mum.

@jassyradlett - that did used to happen Drs would refer to 'the tachycardia in bed 10' 'the stroke in bed 5' etc. It's something they now teach you not to do as it is dehumanizing.

But you don't need to do that, you could just put "Mrs X, Mary's mother" the first time, and Mrs X thereafter.

I don’t work with patients, I work with parents and as I explained in my post, there are times when I’ve been in meetings with three women all called Mrs X and two of them were the mother of at least two children being discussed. The other was an auntie.

@equanimitas - I agree I feel like that now. But I think especially if you've had difficulties in having babies when it does happen it can have a special significance.

I really don't feel comfortable using first names for people I don't know. I can count on one hand the number of parents I've called by their first name in fifteen years!

This is beyond weird. You’re uncomfortable calling them by their name but fine to reduce them to ‘mum’?

Have you thought about how people here are telling you it comes across - for some it feels disrespectful, distancing and reductive?

I work with parents and as I explained in my post, there are times when I’ve been in meetings with three women all called Mrs X and two of them were the mother of at least two children being discussed. The other was an auntie.

So in that situation surely it would have caused more confusion to call them "Mum"? If they had the same surname, surely the easiest solution is to ask of you can use their first names.

I hate this too OP.
I've concluded it's for convenience for the professional to not have to remember names but somehow feels sooo patronising and dismissive of me as having my own identity

@toddlerteaplease - I thought children's nursing was meant to be family-centric? When you admit a child you find out their prefered name? Why can't you ask the parent's prefered name? I thought that was nursing 101? Not sure why you're not interested when so many people find it disrespectful or dehumanizing?

I don’t mind being called mum in the slightest. What I can’t stand is when they turn to you and ask, “...and how’s mum doing?”. I feel like I’m not in the room and it most certainly doesn’t encourage me to express any feelings. Surely they can just ask, “how are YOU doing?”.

When my sister holds my 12 month old and he points at me (or anything really, he points at everything) but I’m busy or have my back turned, she’ll call out in a shrill voice, “maaaammmyyy”, as if mimicking the baby calling me. If I ignore it she’ll keep doing it until I react to whatever he’s doing (e.g. pointing at a lampshade). It’s also normally when I’m in the middle of something like ordering a coffee. It makes my stomach turn. When I’ve spent the whole morning chasing after him, preventing him from popping the bin, raiding the cupboards, licking the carpet, etc, the last thing I want when someone’s offered to hold him so I can buy a coffee out is to hear that .

I don't understand the argument that it's because they can't be expected to remember names. I would never have expected anyone to remember my name but they could say "And how are you feeling?", or "What do you think?" rather than "And how are you feeling, mum?" or "What do you think, mum?" (or even worse "And how is mum feeling?" or "What does mum think?") Doesn't require remembering anything and actually sounds like normal conversation rather than patronising baby talk.

The DC is their primary interest and your only value is defined by your relationship with DC. It’s not intended to be rude

I think this is the base of calling people Mum or Dad, your role in the situation is Mum or Dad, you will be thought of in that way.
As a SW I tried not to do it to people's faces because I know some people get stressed by this.
(Although often they are the same people who get stressed by being called by their first name, or Mrs rather than Miss or Dr or whatever) I would only ever role my eyes on the inside if this was brought up and I saw it as sign of insecurity in a stressful setting.

So in that situation surely it would have caused more confusion to call them "Mum"? If they had the same surname, surely the easiest solution is to ask of you can use their first names.

Obviously we didn’t refer to them all as “Mum”! Only one was mum of the child in question. The other two were a grandmother and an auntie. What would have been confusing would have been to refer to them all as Mrs X.

And yes, some family members are happy to be called by their first name. But the grandmother in this family definitely wouldn’t have been happy with that, especially in a room full of virtual strangers.

I totally get where you are coming from! The midwives and health visitors I have seen were able to call my children by their names, yet found it impossible to remember my very short palindrome name. Very very annoying.
This is part of the reason I discharged myself so quickly with my first and refused midwife visits with my second.
It’s very patronising and definitely a way to “pull rank” it’s sort of like saying “oh you’re JUST the mum, I’m an actual medical professional.” Without actually saying that.

I feel like I’m not in the room and it most certainly doesn’t encourage me to express any feelings

It’s very patronising and definitely a way to “pull rank” it’s sort of like saying “oh you’re JUST the mum, I’m an actual medical professional.” Without actually saying that

This is exactly the point and the problem. Its dehumanising, keeps you in your place and for many people, often those in most need, it stops them communicating essential information to the very people whose job and responsibility it is to help them.

Its utter nonsense that peoples' names are too difficult to manage. On the rare occasion they are not on the notes there is "you" or the "sorry can I just double check your name" type of response.

Its entirely about controlling people's responses and only happens in scenarios where people need a service and have no choice about where they get it.

I once sat in a meeting with the DIrector for CAMHS, the CAMHS lead psychiatrist and the complaints officer.

Conversation went like thus: hello Mum, I'll introduce everyone (she was a former paediatric nurse). I'm Lesley, that's Sharon, that's Dr Campbell-Brown, so you're happy to be called Miranda (obvs not our real names).

When I said "actually no, I'm not happy to be called Miranda whilst I'm expected to address another person in the room with a title and actually only my children may call me mum" she was most irked and made the face. Paradoxically the lead psychiatrist responded he agreed with me, felt aspects of the service needed to modernise and was happy to be called Gerry.

The Director presided over a service descending into chaos and her dated approach was reflected throughout. She was particularly aggressive and defensive and has moved on. The service is now taking on board feedback and is listening.

It is wholly inappropriate tobrefer to one human being in a less respectful way than another. It is either all first names or all titles. It is a fundamental issue of equality.

I am the mother of my children, they may therefore call me mum. It follows that nobody else may call me mum. It is both factually and grammatically incorrect.

I don't understand the argument that it's because they can't be expected to remember names. I would never have expected anyone to remember my name but they could say "And how are you feeling?", or "What do you think?" rather than "And how are you feeling, mum?" or "What do you think, mum?" (or even worse "And how is mum feeling?" or "What does mum think?") Doesn't require remembering anything and actually sounds like normal conversation rather than patronising baby talk.

This is exactly right - about 90% of the time it’s used where no name is needed at all so excuses about ‘it’s hard to remember’ or ‘I don’t have time to ask’ are irrelevant.

Can anyone who does this or has done it in the past explain the rationale for putting ‘mum’ into interactions where no name is needed?

Also and I think this is valid. I am nearly 60 yet neither my mother nor I recall her being addressed as Mum 50 years ago, or with her first name by hcps.

I have no problem with my first name being used when everyone's first name is used. I will not have my first name used by a nurse who in my presence addresses my Dr formally. It infers the patient (and possibly the nurse - though from their perspective, it's their battle) is a subordinate stakeholder and this goes against the grain of the patient being at the heart of the relationship.

It's a power issue and it's inappropriate.

My accountant and solicitor are experts in their fields. They are Fiona and Tom. Tgey would not dream of expecting me to address them as Ms Adamson or Mr Laughton. Neither am I particularly vulnerable before them - I do nat have to remove my clothes and there isn't the intangible threat that they could, if they wished report me to social services. They also charge me for their services so there is no option but to provide a high quality service delivered in a respectful way.

he agreed with me, felt aspects of the service needed to modernise and was happy to be called Gerry

I think the struggle with a lot of the services in this area is an adherence to business practices which other sectors abandoned decades ago. Nor is it necessarily down to people on the ground - it seems almost to be lack of investment in modern processes and training a lot of the time (or lack of appreciation of how it is useful - probably both).

Also and I think this is valid. I am nearly 60 yet neither my mother nor I recall her being addressed as Mum 50 years ago, or with her first name by hcps

I'm also late 50s and my DM was never addressed in this way - she was always "Mrs" at appointments. I think it was commoner then for patients in hospitals to be referred to as "the gall bladder" face to face but even then the non consultant level staff used "Mr" and "Mrs/Miss".

I like being called by my first name by parents. The problem arises when they talk about me to their children, and the children then call me by my first name in school. Again, I don’t mind, but it’s frowned upon by the senior leadership team.

I don’t work with patients, I work with parents and as I explained in my post, there are times when I’ve been in meetings with three women all called Mrs X and two of them were the mother of at least two children being discussed. The other was an auntie.

I'm sure that, in this rare situation and with a minimal amount of thought, you could find a solution to this issue which doesn't involve addressing someone using a term you would only otherwise use for addressing your own mother. It certainly doesn't seem to be sufficient justification for using such an inappropriate method of addressing all mothers in conversations and identifying them in written records.

What I can’t stand is when they turn to you and ask, “...and how’s mum doing?”

In that situation, I've been known to say "Sorry, I have no idea how your mum is doing."

The DC is their primary interest and your only value is defined by your relationship with DC. It’s not intended to be rude

I think this is the base of calling people Mum or Dad, your role in the situation is Mum or Dad, you will be thought of in that way.

But no-one else is addressed by their role - e.g. in a multi-professional meeting no-one else is addressed as Teacher, Social Worker, Educational Psychologist etc. So why is it only the parents who are deprived of their names?

Can't say I batted an eyelid, really didn't bother me at all.
If you dont like it op why aren't you just telling them? It's easily fixed and shouldn't really be this much of an issue.

Obviously we didn’t refer to them all as “Mum”! Only one was mum of the child in question

But in the post I was replying to, FamilyofAliens, you said " I’ve been in meetings with three women all called Mrs X and two of them were the mother of at least two children being discussed"?

And if in fact only one was the mother of the children in question, how did everyone address the other two women?

In that situation, I've been known to say "Sorry, I have no idea how your mum is doing."

A similar question from HV after first DC resulted in me saying "she is arriving Saturday" or similar.

It was an automatic response on my part. One of the reasons I stopped engaging with her was her insistence on calling me "mum" after I'd told her to address me by name. If I'd had significant issues I wouldn't have told her because she plainly didn't see me as a human being meriting her attention.