To think that there are too many personal insults and attacks on Tory voters

[Soimblue]

I’m really sick of it now. I don’t log on here to be called a cunt, told I hate disabled people and want to ruin the NHS.

I’m interested as to whether others feel the same or if it is just me. If it’s just me, I think I’ll piss off.

What a vast load of ARSE.

Well, that really elevated the level of debate!

Yep. And with no stated target.

Colourmagic

Thanks for the info about some new Tory MPs. As usual, an illuminating post.

The objections above to new MPs having worked in banking, industry , arms, tech just illustrates why Labour lost as they are less able to find competent MPs with business experience behind them. Even just taking one objection above - arms - one reason Labour lost was it forgot working class voters are keen on law and order, many are soldiers etc. Weapons are not something everyone hates and thinks we shouldn ot have but those in the Labour guarnateed to lose bubble think so and similarly they think those who help make our country successful who work in banking who provide a lot of the money for the less well off are the devil incarnate. Until Labour learns these lessons it will not win again.

Yeah bankers have made the country so successful, remember when they needed government bailouts? Nice bit of socialism there when they needed it.

Thank you @snapcrap for your rational responses.

For all of you arguing about who gives the most abuse (really?), rest assured that many people are like snapcrap IRL.

If you are not fortunate enough to have such people in your life, please do not assume that it is normal to go around calling people cunts or other names or refusing to allow them to play a part in their lives, for holding differing political opinions. Thankfully the majority of us have enough intelligence, decorum and wisdom to hold the democratic ideology in our minds.

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The Banking Bailout 2011:

'Economic losses associated with recession driven by financial crisis. This is obviously problematic, and if you're aiming to calculate only what is it that we are on the hook for, then perhaps it should be excluded. But at the end of the day, we are on the hook for paying more benefits to those who lost work, for the emergency stimulus packages, for the bailouts of collaterally damaged industries (see Midlands car industry for example). IF you accept this crisis is one stemming from within the financial sector for shenanigans, rather than good business practices, than I think it's valid to consider this as a cost, at least in part.'

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'Professor Desmond, formerly dean of Social sciences at Sussex and treasury adviser now retired, attempted to analyse the wider costs to the economy of the banking crisis in a paper he submitted to the Independent Banking Commission. He emails suggesting the true economic cost of the banking crisis is between 11 and 13% of GDP:

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The costs of the crisis are not simply the costs to the Treasury important those these may be. These are indeed only a pinprick compared to the costs for all of us due to the losses of output caused by the recession and in subsequent years caused by the financial crisis. Output [GDP ] is still some 4% below the previous peak in 2008, and during the years since the crisis [2008-2011] output would have grown by around 2.5% per annum but for the crisis.

Output is scarcely growing at all during 2011 and will also grow well below its trend rate in the following years [2012 and 2013].

I have estimated taking into account the losses of output that would have occurred since 2008 without the financial crisis caused by the reckless lending of the banks, and projecting the losses forward until the end of 2012, that the total cost to the economy - all of us - is around 11 to 13% of GDP.'

www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/sep/12/reality-check-banking-bailout

most of us do have enough decorum, but some of us recognise this victim status trend going on in the right wing, who hold all the power.

I've been called a snowflake, a wet liberal, a communist, anti Semitic remoaner. Insults abound on all sides. Stop whining and have a conversation about it.

So it’s not that people are fed up of being called cunts, it’s because there is a victim status trend?

I’ll remember that if it ever happens to me.

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Austerity doesn't work.

'Even the IMF says austerity doesn’t work. It’s the zombie idea that will not die'

'The IMF – historically the world’s foremost cheerleader of austerity – admitted that it was based on a false prospectus: these policies do more harm than good.

Simon Wren-Lewis of Oxford University said that the issue was not whether attempts to reduce the deficit had damaged the economy, but “how much GDP has been lost as a result”. Amartya Sen said that while austerity “deepened Europe’s economic problems, it did not help in the aimed objective of reducing the ratio of debt to GDP to any significant extent”.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/07/imf-austerity-doesnt-work-immigrants-working-class

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'A United Nations expert said late last year that efforts by the Conservative government to pare state spending were “entrenching high levels of poverty and inflicting unnecessary misery in one of the richest countries in the world.”

'Since 2010, the Conservative government has announced more than 30 billion pounds, or nearly $40 billion, in cuts to welfare payments, housing subsidies and social services, and the British leadership is in “a state of denial” about the devastation its policies have wrought, the United Nations said.'

'...in 2012, the year Parliament passed the Welfare Reform Act, a central plank of austerity: Since then, about 600,000 children have fallen back into “relative poverty.” During the same period, the number of children requiring food handouts from the Trussell Trust, the country’s largest network of food banks, has more than tripled.

It is not just the jobless and their families who are suffering. Roughly two-thirds of poor children have at least one parent who works, the Institute for Fiscal Studies has said.'

www.nytimes.com/2019/02/24/world/europe/britain-austerity-may-budget.html

Do you see a thread complaining about abuse of labour voters ?

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I am not interested in calling people names. But it appears that many Tory voters are oblivious of the full extent of the cruelty and abuses of what they have voted for, or are in denial, or don't care, or even try to justify the damages inflicted on some UK citizens by punitive Tory policies of the last 9 years, by blaming the victims of Tory policies.

'The UK government has inflicted “great misery” on disabled people and other marginalised groups, with ministers in a state of “denial” about the impact of their policies, a UN human rights expert has concluded.

Professor Philip Alston (pictured), the UN’s special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, said disabled people had faced “endless problems” as a result of the government’s social security reforms.

And he said it was clear that there needed to be a better assessment of the impact of the government’s social security cuts and reforms, including any links to the deaths of people found unfairly fit for work.' .....

Alston said figures from the Social Metrics Commission showed that 14 million people, a fifth of the population, were living in poverty and nearly half of them were from families in which someone was disabled.

He said disabled people “were feeling a very big crunch” and he added: “Many of them were still getting benefits but those benefits had been reduced dramatically, many others were put in a position where the assessment had concluded that they were not really disabled and that they should simply get out and work.”

He said disabled people had told him “again and again about benefits assessments that were superficial and dismissive, and that led to findings that contradicted the advice of their doctor”.

Alston said the “lack of compassion” and the “lack of trying to really understand the challenges confronted in life” by many disabled people was “a real problem”.....

He said the government had succeeded in putting out the message that “the state does not have your back any longer. You are on your own.”

And he warned: “By emphasizing work as a panacea for poverty against all evidence and dismantling the community support, benefits, and public services on which so many rely, the government has created a highly combustible situation that will have dire consequences.”

Alston said his discussions with ministers had convinced him that they were in “a state of denial” about poverty.

He said they appeared to be “happy with the way their policies are playing out” even though they had inflicted “great misery” on groups such as “the working poor, on single mothers struggling against mighty odds, on people with disabilities who are already marginalized, and on millions of children who are being locked into a cycle of poverty from which most will have great difficulty escaping”.

He said he had heard “story after story from people who considered and even attempted suicide” and had spoken with many organisations that had needed to introduce suicide prevention training for frontline staff.

One adviser told him: “The cumulative impact of successive cuts has been devastating.

“People are coming to me because they are suicidal, they have turned to sex work, they can’t live with themselves.”

Alston said there was a sense from the government that it should “make the system as unwelcoming as possible, that people who need benefits should be reminded constantly that they are lucky to get anything, that nothing will be made easy”.......

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/un-poverty-report-uk-government-has-inflicted-great-misery-on-disabled-people/

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You voted for more of that. Please don't make excuses.

one reason Labour lost was it forgot working class voters are keen on law and order,

There's a difference between "law and order" (I.e. the police) and arms manufacturers such as those who sell weapons to Saudi Arabia, which then uses them to murder children in the Yemen.

If you've been attacked, then that is, of course, out of order but if you are saying you feel like your character has been attacked, that's a whole different matter

However, in my personal opinion, I would think less of someone who voted Tory. The things BoJo has said about African people and Muslims is desicable. But that's not to say that all Tory voters would let that slide, or think it was okay. As a non-white person, I felt that if I voted for them, I would endorse that opinion.

On the other hand, my sister voted for them because she employs people and was concerned that the MW would be increased if Labour had won the vote.. She is also non-white. I couldn't understand her ignoring BoJo's ignorant comments, and she couldn't understand why I'd be happy for plenty of business/owners, or whatever, to be out of pocket. So it isn't as clear cut as we like to think. I think the world of my sister, but I find her ignorant, as she does me. According to her, I don't get it. She's right about that.

so not bothered about the tories promise to increase the minimum wage higher but at a slower rate..

Remind me the last time lots of businesses went out of business because of higher minimum wages.

Oh and if your business isn't viable without the government paying benefits to your employs.
Its not a viable business.

Go bankrupt, like good capitalists.

As the parent of a disabled child I think tory voters deserve everything they get. Blinkered, selfish, lacking in awareness and empathy....could go on

The only thing the Tories got right was when they decided on the 'Britain deserves better' strap line. They failed to see that we deserved better than them. Voting Tory does say something about the type of person you are, IMO, about your values and respect for fellow human beings. It always has, but never more so than under the likes of Rees-Mogg, Patel and Johnson. They make Thatcher look like a moderate.

“ The only thing the Tories got right was when they decided on the 'Britain deserves better' strap line.“

I find it extraordinary that this slogan wasn’t met with utter derision, frankly!

I find it extraordinary that this slogan wasn’t met with utter derision, frankly!

Yes

You’d almost think that tories had not been in government for the last 9 years,

Thats the bit I didn’t understand really

@BertrandRussell - Quite! Hence my comment about their failure to recognise it was their shit they were faced with sorting. I just don't understand how people fell for it.

I can see a lot of very strong left wing views above. That is fine. They are obviously wrong and Britain deserved a whole lot better than Corbyn and left wing socialism and thankfully voted for that.

We are now where we are thankfully with a Tory party with power as Labour messed things up so badly. If the left continues to be quite left wing then it will not win in 5 years' time so it has to take some hard decisions for it.

I can see a lot of very strong left wing views above. That is fine. They are obviously wrong

They’re not very strong left wing views. They’re all evidence based, centrist views which are absolutely spot on.

I find it extraordinary that this slogan wasn’t met with utter derision, frankly! I don't people think cared too much. They just didn't want Jeremy Corbyn. No matter how loathsome BJ is etc., they preferred him to JC.