To think that there are too many personal insults and attacks on Tory voters

[Soimblue]

I’m really sick of it now. I don’t log on here to be called a cunt, told I hate disabled people and want to ruin the NHS.

I’m interested as to whether others feel the same or if it is just me. If it’s just me, I think I’ll piss off.

and it did not show he sided with terrorists.

Then I'm sure the record will show that he reached out to other paramilitary organisations in NI, and not just the IRA, and sat down to discuss peace with them over tea and biscuits.

Wonder how Guido missed that? Unless it never happened, of course.

A quote from the Telegraph is a little disingenuous here

I gave my source in the interests of transparency. Disregard it if you wish.

He did of course meet with Ian Paisley and David Irvine and others too.

So and independent site states guido is biased and you deny it.

Oh well be a victim if you want.

It is really dismaying that people living in a democracy find it necessary to make personal insults to people because of their political beliefs.

David Irvine

The Holocaust denier?

It’s always important to remember that the Republican cause in Northern Ireland in an entirely legitimate one. It is perfectly possible to be a republican without being a terrorist sympathiser. As it is possible to be a unionist without being a terrorist sympathiser. Which is lucky for the current government.

Ervine

Ervine

Phew! I'm glad you cleared that one up.

Abuse is abuse, online or IRL Maylis. I'm not sure why you think that because someone votes Tory they can't be abused or they can't call it abuse when they are called evil cunts? What is your definition of abuse?

Anyway you are exactly what I and others are talking about. Inflexible, holier-than-thou, unable to see what is in front of your eyes ie a country that is full of reasonable, rational, generally good hearted people.

You have decided that half the country are bastards and deserve every hurled word of abuse. Again I ask you is that honestly your experience of every day life, is every other person you meet a living caricature of Ebenezer Scrooge?

I didn't vote Tory or Brexit but I am disgusted by the way voters have been treated. We live in a democracy. Anger is fine. Frustration is fine. Generalising and demonising, blindness and bitterness is not fine for you, me or anyone.

I've been saying all along that the abuse is on both sides but we don't see similar threads from Labour or remainers

I'm not inflexible, certainly not holier than thou, have never ever called anyone else names on here (unlike you just now).

Nice Strawman with the scrooge allegory.

I too generally agree with snapcrap

See snapcraps point is fundamentally flawed and involves name calling, yet you all agree.

Good to know.

Inflexible, holier-than-thou, unable to see what is in front of your eyes

Who’s name calling now?

As I said downthread, whatever you think of left wingers, they do tend not to say really objectionable things publicly. Whereas right wingers do. I don’t know why this is.

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'Revealed: A fifth of new Tory MPs have worked as lobbyists.
New MPs include lobbyists for banks, private healthcare and arms manufacturers'

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'The new Tory cohort includes a former head of communications for a private healthcare company, a top lobbyist for British bankers, a former staffer at Cambridge Analytica’s parent company, and former employees of firms which have represented the arms industry and the governments of Qatar and Kazakhstan.
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Four of Britain’s largest lobbying firms – Portland Communications, Grayling, Hanover Communications and Pagefield – now have at least one former employee in parliament.'
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Mark Fletcher, who replaced Dennis Skinner as MP for Bolsover, was the head of communications for Synergix Health for seven months in 2018. Its biggest brand is ‘Doctor Care Anywhere’, a health tech ‘telemedicine’ service that provides private GP consultations via an ‘app’, for a subscription payment or one-off fee. Doctor Care Anywhere has also started to secure contracts to provide its services to NHS GP surgeries including 6 surgeries in Plymouth. Mr Fletcher did not respond to our request for comment.

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Mark Logan, the new Conservative MP for Bolton North East, is the former head of global communications for the Chinese conglomerate Sanpower, Sanpower which owns multiple healthcare interests, including managing hospitals and ‘subscription health care’. The conglomerate includes ‘the largest telemedicine and home-based senior care company in Israel’. Speaking to openDemocracy, Mr Logan said: “I was with our Health Secretary earlier today and the message is resolutely clear: the NHS is not for sale. And we will now be commencing on the single biggest investment boost – £33.9bn.”

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Banking, weapons and Cambridge Analytica

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Anthony Browne, in South Cambridgeshire, was CEO of the British Bankers’ Association, the main lobby group for the banking industry, from 2012-2017.

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Sevenoakes MP Laura Trott is a former communications adviser to David Cameron who co-wrote the party’s 2015 manifesto, and went on to be a partner at the lobbying firm Portland until her election. Portland represents the governments of Qatar and Kazakhstan, numerous pharmaceutical companies, and the arms company BAE Systems.

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Fay Jones in Brecon and Radnorshire was the head of Wales for the global public relations and lobbying firm Grayling until her election this month. Grayling has numerous clients, including private healthcare companies, failed outsourcing giant Carillion, arms company Lockhead Martin and the National Casino Forum. Neither Trott nor Jones responded to our request for comment.

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Alicia Kearns, the new MP for Rutland and Melton, worked as a communications staff member at the Foreign Office, leading the departments’ communications in Iraq and Syria, and led the Ministry of Defence communications in Scotland during the independence referendum. She then moved into the private sector, where she designed and directed “counter violent extremism, counter disinformation, hybrid warfare and behaviour change programmes for Governments, militaries, and NGOs to build stronger and safer communities.”

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Imran Ahmed-Khan, the new Wakefield MP, worked for the military communications firm SCL from 2003-4, the parent company of Cambridge Analytica before working at the Syrian Media Centre, representing the Syrian government from 2004-5. He most recently worked at the advertising and PR firm M&C Saatchi.

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Neither Alicia Kearns nor Ahmed-Khan responded to openDemocracy’s requests for comment."

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www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-fifth-new-tory-mps-have-worked-lobbyists/?fbclid=IwAR0T_f3D2EYYmN5XAyzeMA1Kn0bRpeZZjLtPlgUhQl7zF2e9sSPGKnw-wNA

Malylis the points you make about German politics and its economy are valid. But the thing is the UK isn’t Germany and we don’t have their social, political or economic legacy.

The UKs wealth is derived from and is hugely influenced by the our capital markets. These are some of the strongest in the world. Germany has relatively weak capital markets and its industries do not rely on them for capital or investment The German government, the workers, banks and industry have always worked hand in hand. More so since the last war and unification.

The context in which German politics and fiscal policies operate could not be more different from our own. We cannot just copy what they do, it’s not tenable given our reliance on the City of London financial and commercial interests. We need a strategy to change how we operate as a nation that reduces that reliance and maintains our wealth. I didn’t see it in either manifesto.

Labour rightly pointed out that we are a wealthy country. But it is hostile to the source of that wealth. Whilst proposing that it borrows extensively from that source to fund the schemes that attacks them.

I don't see Labour being hostile to the source of wealth, I also think things like a green investment bank and government investment in infrastructure and tighter regulation on other industries would bring us closer to a european model.

Not sure how brexit looks after the interests of the city either

Holier-than-thou, inflexible and unable to see in front of your eyes is quite literally not name calling.

I don't think you're a cunt or a bastard or stupid. I think you are too rigid in your views to even contemplate valid reasons for voting Conservative (or Brexit). That the only reason is that you are a bad person.

It quite literally is.

I've never said any of those things, just repeatedly pointed out that it happens on both sides but one receives the attention on here.

You quite literally can't call someone an 'inflexible'.

You can call someone a cunt.

I'm not saying you did, of course, but that's what OP's post was based around.

Look don't want to fight, I get that you're angry, frustrated and disappointed and I do understand. Wish there was more tolerance all round (genuinely, not being snarky). Let's hope 2020 is less divisive and more constructive.

except you can, but you out holier than thou etc, you can call someone inflexible.

I'm not angry, I'm keen on accuracy, there is lots of name calling and snide remarks aimed at labour supporters here but only the Tories appear to be claiming victimhood (as trump and brexit supporters did before) its a trend.

Lemon - I don’t doubt that uk economics is not as simple as copying Germany, however the IFS say that labours manifesto was the only reasonable choice and way back in shiny Dave’s days the IMF were public about advising him to increase public spending by 2% to get us out of the recession and he ignored them to push austerity.

I have voted labour once decades ago, but not now, and have never voted Tory. While personally I’d be happy with a socialist government I do think that labour (party) are idiotic not to recognise that the electorate is simply not the same as after the wars when many of labours socialist policies were supported, that without Scotland’s votes we are a very different and much more centrist electorate in England and to adapt accordingly. However I think it’s a joke that people keep on with the idea that labour will destroy our economy.... not only did labour spending not cause the last recession (thatcher selling off council houses without reinvesting into more council homes meant house prices massively inflated between very low purchase price and buyers selling them on for huge profits, which lead to banks pushing 100% mortgages, which was always going to crash eventually no matter who was in power, added to a world wide recession that escalated it) but Tory austerity kept us in a recession longer. I’m not ok with the insults hurled either side but the need to cling to misinformation like how labour spending will destroy the uk is embarrassing. Macro economics is different from microeconomics and it’s ridiculous that people cling to this as if it’s a valid argument. Countries being in debt is pretty standard, TB borrowing more when he did is in no way the same as individuals running up unstable debts and shouldn’t be painted as irresponsible or unadvisable, because actually DC was advised to borrow more and he chose instead to cut benefits for the most vulnerable. When the UN investigated and found the UK was guilty of ‘grave and systematic violations of the rights of people with disabilities’ DC then increased cuts that continued to harm those with disabilities (and women and children) when all he needed to do was to follow the IMF advise to increase public spending.

I’ll begin by saying I don’t tend to use insults and I do try to be polite. But if I didn’t think people who vote Tory were wrong, I’d be voting Tory too! Of course I’m going to say that I disagree. Of course I think that the policies they support are damaging to the country and to individuals. Of course I think many public statements made by Tories are vile. Are we expected to keep quiet about that until the next election?