To support banning this person

[DownToTheSeaAgain]

Close family member is hosting Christmas. Everyone is looking forward to it. One of the other (much loved also family member) invitees is a recovering alcoholic and unfortunately they have history for relapsing at Christmas. We have just found out that this has happened.
Host has said that alcoholic family member can't now come at Christmas. We've had this scenario before with alcoholic family member coming and it has been awful. Physically and emotionally. Problem is there are DC involved and banning her means the kids get banned too. It is not possible to host kids without their parent.

AIBU to support hosts decision even though it is tough on the kids?

I feel for you DownToTheSeaAgain. I get the severity of alcoholism, my father died from the disease. But you sound cold towards these children. Personally I would
be doing everything that I could to give these children a loving and happy Christmas. I understand that you don’t want the alcoholic to impact upon the other children in the family, but there seems to be little effort put into finding a way of still including the children and ensuring that they have a safe and happy Christmas. At the very least, if children in my family couldn’t be included on the day, the family would then be having a ‘second christmas’ including them. Would it be possible for the children to come and stay with you later on in the holidays, so still create some happy festive memories for them?

It certainly sounds to me as though you've done all you can to help, op.
Alcoholics can go without booze for a short period, maybe two or three days. If it was impressed upon her that she will not be welcome if she drinks, the responsible side of her may take that on board and she'll behave.

I'll speak to the dc's father and remind him that we are here to help. If he wants to come at Christmas with the kids I am sure he will be welcome.

Glad to hear that. Please do.

OP my 28-year-old nephew has been a binge-drinker throughout his twenties so I understand your decision and I agree with you and the family member who is hosting the Christmas gathering.

My sister and brother-in-law have given my nephew huge amounts of emotional, financial, and practical support over the years. They have also spent enormous amounts of time speaking with counselors, reading about addiction in general and alcoholism in particular.

He goes on horrible 3-day or 4-day vodka binges. He blacks out so he has no memory of what he was saying or doing. He has spoiled Christmas several times over the years and right now he's in a detox facility recovering from his latest binge. He'll get out of detox this Monday the 23rd. He is refusing to go to long-term in-patient rehab. Instead he is choosing to go right back to the boarding house where he was binge-drinking last week. He will probably start drinking vodka on Tuesday.

My sister and brother-in-law have decided that he cannot attend the Christmas gathering if he's drunk.
If he's sober and wants to come over, then we will meet him at the door to inspect every bag that he tries to bring in the house (to look for vodka bottles). Many times in the past he has sneaked bottles of vodka into the house in a bin bag or a backpack, etc. Then he would go upstairs to the spare bedroom, ostensibly to watch TV, and would start gulping vodka up there as quickly as possible. He has done this as recently as a week ago. My sister has decided that she has to set stronger boundaries. I totally understand why your family has to do the same. No judgement from me.

You are not clear- has she definitely relapsed or are just just anticipating she will?
Either way leaving her isolated and alone is not likely to help her recovery really is it. If she drinks on the day you can ask her to leave and pick up the children on Boxing Day. Perhaps she will not drink at all and feel very hurt the whole family has turned away.

(Yes I do have direct experience)

She is drinking again. That is not in doubt.

She's not my sister though - not sure where that came from. It is possible that dealing with authorities would be easier if she were although I doubt it.

Again - given that you are prioritising Not Having A Fuss on Christmas day above the children - I really REALLY doubt that you have done everything you can.

It sounds like the host and the OP are trying to protect the other children in the family who will be present on Christmas day.

OP - I have an alcoholic in my family. I really feel for you and know that 'rock and a hard place' feeling (albeit in different circumstances) all too well.

I get the difficulty in knowing how best to manage Christmas when a relative has alcoholism.

I don't get coming on to Mumsnet looking for advice when you already know what you are going to do.

OP is just looking for validation people. This is for OP and family to live with.

For clarity: I wasn't asking for advice but opinions (which I've received). It is a decision which I am not wholly comfortable with but I can't see alternatives. I have now been presented with some alternatives and also some opinions on the validity of the decision,

So - what Mumsnet is good for. Shame it inevitably comes with abuse in some cases but that is expected and unimportant in the scale of things.

Thank you

So who is she to you? A cousin? Is the relationship more distant than you're making out? Who is the host, your aunt?

It sounds to me like you are doing the right thing. I think a lot of people on here haven’t read your posts, or (for no reason) have decided they don’t believe you. Weird.

Seems very odd the number of people who think that being taken into care is automatically better than bad parenting.

You’ve done everything you can, within reason, to help. The children will be safe.

Vulnerable children are everybodies responsibility. You are the adults here, and these children need you all in their corner. I totally understand being at wits end, of being drained emotionally from dealing with alcohism and what it entails. And I understand wanting your own christmas and protecting your own children. But the thing is your children are ok, they have you in their corner and they will have their christmas. I have seen the fallout of alcholism throughout my family, it is incidious and damaging. These vulnerable children should not be in the care of an alcholic without being supported and protected. I understand SS isn't helping the situation with the kids and you feel they aren't your responsibility but if their parent isn't able and SS wont then the family must step in. Either to support the father having care while their mother is not able or a family situation they can move to while still being in contact with their parents. I have cousins brought up by their aunts and uncles because their parents were not able to care for them, it wasn't a SS decision, it was a family decision based on what was best for the children. I am beyond glad that the families adults stepped in to take responsibility of the children while their parents couldn't.

I just read you are going to contact the father, please do and support the kids who didnt ask to be in this situation

There is so much naivety with regard to the threshold at which SS get involved with families. They are highly unlikely to get involved on the back of parental alcoholism, if there is no outward sign of extreme neglect.
The estate I came from in Glasgow, pretty much every parent was an alcoholic. It was almost cultural. No chance was SS intervening routinely in every family on that huge estate. There was a couple who lived downstairs from me, both of whom were heroin addicts, and who had a baby together. SS were visiting and supporting the family, but the child was never removed as SS deemed him to be adequately parented. The boy was 6 when I moved away, both parents still injecting heroin, boy still living at home, SS still calling round from time to time - or at least whenever there was anyone available.

Op could someone pick the kids up early? Eg Monday Tuesday? And keep them till after Christmas?

I would not want Christmas spoiled for these kids but equally my kids are important and deserve a happy and fuss free Christmas.

As the child of an alcoholic my heart hurts for these kids. They won’t have many happy memories of Christmas to look back on. And that hurts.
Equally I don’t blame you.
Having an alcoholic at your events can really put a downer on things. Your on the edge waiting to see what they will do next.

I don’t think you can win in this situation.
But if my only choice was kids with alcoholic or no kids and no alcoholic I would have to go for the first option.

Can’t the children come over with the non-relapsed parent?

Update:
I've spoken to their dad and extended the invite (having checked with host). He is unlikely to take it up but I have reasserted to him that we love the DC very much and are here to help him with them if he needs.

The host and I have had a chat about the situation and based on some things that I picked up from here we are mutually agreed (as we always have been) to provide every support to the DC as and when we can but the difference now is that we will keep in closer touch with the dad to remind him we are there if he deems it necessary. We can't take over his role. We can't make him bring the kids on Christmas Day but we won't disappear into the background.

I'm the daughter of an alcoholic. She had a very large extended family who socialised together often but usually excluded us because of her drinking. I have dozens of cousins (she was one of 12 children), who all have very close relationships today in middle age. I have no bonds with any of them because I was left out of all of the memorable bonding experiences they benefitted from. I would've been over the moon to be included, not least of all because I'd have been fed. I used to think about how unfair it was that my cousins got to eat all of the party food when they, unlike me, already had food in their cupboards.

The children of alcoholics are punished over and over again for their parent's transgressions.

Your update comes across to me a lot less well then you might assume...

I'm not sure it's coming across like you intend it either op.

I think the OP is coming across fine

Sounds fine to me too.

Can you invite the children with their father?

@ Equanimitas op has. Read the update.

They are not being well cared for, regardless of what SS say, I would take my niece and nephew, if i knew they werent being looked after.

Poor children

So I assume she is your niece, and the host your sibling. It would be easier if you clarified the relationship, as it does make a difference.

I agree that the children are the main priority, Christmas is for children, and if she came and behaved badly ( how badly ? Aggressive? Tearful ? ) then could the adults deal with this in turn, while all the younger ones play or watch a film together ? Is there room for this ? Or is she so ghastly /noisy that it is impossible? I do have experience of alcoholic family members, but in my case the people would usually bow out of family situations if drinking.
The thought of such young children being with a drunk mother is pretty terrible.