To literally cancel Christmas

[itsnotterrysitsmine]

Fully prepared to be told I am but here goes.
DH & I both work, me full time in a demanding, stressful job, DH part time at weekends long hours & decent money so one of us is always at work & the other has DC's. We've done this for childcare & financial reasons as no support network at all so all down to us 100% of the time (the last time we went out together without a child in tow was when I was pregnant with DC2 7 years ago).
The house is a permanent mess with us living out of washing baskets, I'm constantly chasing my tail with housework & never catch up. 2 oldest DC's (8 & nearly 7) are beyond lazy, leave wrappers lying around that inevitably end up on the floor / under furniture (doesn't matter how much we've nagged, reminded etc keeps happening), chuck dirty washing on the floor, leave scrunched up on the end of a bed / down the side of the bed (despite having a basket in their room), leave plates, cups wherever, get toys out & don't put them away. On top of this DC1 is beyond rude to me & DH, refuses to help (have to seriously loose it & confiscate all electrics to get him to help) & DC2 has always been a massive handful (overly rough in play, extremely stubborn, more you ask him to stop the more he does it / refuses to listen). Throw an active toddler in to the mix and well.... The house feels like a squat.
Things have come to a head this morning where yet again I'm spending my holiday / time off work running around like a twat trying to tidy up etc & get ready for Christmas. We got the tree out 2 weeks ago & the older DC were told we would not get decs out until they'd helped tidy the living room. The tree is still not decorated. This morning has been spent refereeing them, refusing to let DC1 just eat junk food, asking them for help to tidy up so we can enjoy the Christmas break & have some fun together which has ended with the usual refusals to help so I have taken the Xbox & tablets off them & sent them to their room. I've just come upstairs to find them watching TV in my room & when I told them that wasn't the point of them coming upstairs they have just laughed in my face like it's all a big joke. I have lost it with them, told them that they are rude, ungrateful & spoilt & that their behaviour is a disgrace.
I have sat sobbing for the last 20 minutes feeling like an utter failure in every way wondering why I bother when to be honest they really don't deserve anything, then feeling like an utter monster for feeling thinking it.

saw jobs update - could you both work part time? during the week....?
if you work for a big company then maybe you should consider as you will keep most of the benefits....could you work a day less? most organisations will consider that now....even though you have an income hit it will be only a few years til dc3 is elgible for reduced chidlcare cost...and then school..I woudl be amazed that holiday clubs would really wipe out all those costs..you uusally get discount and you will both be able to take annual leave.....

currently you have hardly any family time together......and that will also be inpacting on the DC...maybe over the break do a 5yr plan
looking at actual costs and what would be your bare minimum to live on
I know how crap it is have been back ft for 2 yrs now and resent the weekend chores pile but at least dh is sharing the load...life was much easier when worked part time! and probably next year one of us will go to 4days

Yes your dh sounds a bit lazy BUT if it was a woman as a SAHM who worked weekends then the replies would be so different. He is caring for a toddler at home.

Your big problem sounds like the other kids. They are old enough to know better. In the kindest way, your boundaries need tightening and the tidying up is an expectation not a chore. They need consequences every single time they do something wrong and every time they do something right. Until their learnt behaviour is to tidy and pick stuff up.

Does your dh back you up with behaviour for the other 2?

I think your children need you around more, OP

There are plenty of women who work full time and have positive, mutually respectful relationships with their children and houses that don't feel overwhelmingly messy and chaotic. Perhaps OP's DC wouldn't "need her around more" if her DH, who is at home five days a week, pulled his weight.

Some children do know how to tidy but it goes quicker, more efficiently and more effectively with 'help' (supervision).

New Year's Resolution is to get your house in order. Start as soon as you take down the decorations. Get your children to clear up after themselves. (All kids are messy, but I've never seen one just chuck sweet wrappers on the floor). This is going to require constant reminding. Boring but necessary.

And your DH needs to get up off his arse! Will the toddler be going to nursery? Even if not, he can damn well do some clearing/cleaning/washing in the week.

And once a room is sorted KEEP IT THAT WAY! Otherwise you will be back to square one in a heartbeat.

Loads of tips on the Housekeeping Board to help

I wouldn’t cancel it but I’m your situation I’d scale it down massively but only after writing each family member a list of jobs and going out for a coffee
The older 2 can tidy up and decorate tree etc. Dh can surely sit the toddler in front of peppa and get some washing on etc

Tell them to text you when it’s all tidy and you’ll come back then make yourself a drink and hide away to ‘wrap presents’

• If your husband is at home during the week why is the house so messy?

Because he's a stay at home parent. His job is childcare, not cleaner, laundry maid, cook, etc.*

Ffs. So the op has to do everything at the weekend, whilst dealing with said toddler and the other two as well?!

Christmas in an unnecessary emotional complication for your household right now.

It's more important to get your house straight and have necessary conversations and allocations of jobs.

Everyone will benefit from a calmer and more peaceful household. Adding to the current mess and fraught emotions will benefit no-one.

Simple food, not a set piece. Spend time with each other.

OFGS! No toddler needs being hovered over 24/7. There are plenty of opportunities to do housework/ironing/washing up/food prep with a toddler around.

Childcare doesn't have to be full time. In nurseries the ratios ensure that children have some time when they are not being managed.

Your DH does need to get on it with the housework if he is at home during the day whilst older DC’s are at school. This is something you need to address with him in the new year and seriously sort out!

Your older DC sound like nightmares 👍🏻 and I say that affectionately as most 7 & 8 year olds are a bit of a nightmare. They’ve learnt low standards living in a house that’s ‘like a squat’ with a DF who doesn’t prioritise housework and a DM whose right at the end of her tether and has got to 21st December (by the sounds of it) totally unorganised.

It all sounds like a mess and having a toddler on top isn’t ideal, but that’s not your older DC’s fault. You chose to have a third.

I wouldn’t make an effort to put the tree up at this stage. Wrap 2-3 gifts you already have for each of them and leave a letter from Santa saying he’s taken the rest back as was disappointed at the mess/lack of tree.
They can earn them back through January if their behaviour improves significantly.

^ Your DC’s behaviour isn’t good but it’s NOT the main problem here and you/DH need to get your acts together. If the house is always a tip, you’re always exhausted, fed up and annoyed then that’s what your DC will learn.

"Because he's a stay at home parent. His job is childcare, not cleaner, laundry maid, cook, etc

but that is what stay at home women do, FFS.

YANBU to cancel. Stop being walked over.

I agree, it's your dh. He's lazy and useless. Mine would be the same though, if I let him away with it!

Have you heard of the organised mum method? Google it. Get DH on board and then ban the kids from every single device and grab some bin bags and declutter the whole house until the place looks decent. Once it's decluttered, move from room to room until each one is clean. Make the kids help, and ban them from their devices for a couple of weeks too. They can have them back after they spend a couple of weeks being respectful to their parents and the place where they live.

Use the organised mum method for keeping ontop of your housework. Basically, every day of the week, your dh needs to concentrate on one room for half an hour a day. Plus spend another half an hour keeping the main living areas and bathrooms clean, and putting washes on. He can definitely manage that with a toddler! Then he can spend the rest of the day being as lazy as he likes.

I feel for you, I couldn't cope with the situation you're in now. You really need to bang some heads together and take charge to get things to change.

job lists for christmas presents - no wrappers

I would book myself into a hotel for Xmas on my own in your situation. I wouldn’t leave any of the gifts wrapped for the family, or any Xmas food for them in the fridge. I’d leave it up the lazy shit of a husband to explain to the kids what’s happening. Once home I would get a cupboard that can be securely locked. Tablets and Xbox etc would go in there whenever they refuse to do what they are told. They would soon learn after a couple of weeks of this even if they hated my guts in the process. I would also ignore my husband until he starts to help more. If he still refuses to help after a few weeks then I would be seeking a divorce

There are plenty of women who work full time and have positive, mutually respectful relationships with their children and houses that don't feel overwhelmingly messy and chaotic.

Yes, but not here. I'm talking specifically about this circumstance, @MinisterforCheekyFuckery. The children are in rebellion mode, the lack of parenting is palpable, and I doubt that the OP's husband is going to step up. It's not fair, no, but it might be the only way.

Sounds that you need to establish some boundaries and enforce them rigidly. They are also learning misogyny from your husband.

Now I'm calmer, & the DC have helped tidy, of course I'm not going to actually cancel Christmas for them. They are my world & I couldn't do it them, but I'm not going to let them get away with lazy, obnoxious behaviour either.
DH is also going to be getting a boot up the arse when he gets home from work & I'll be downloading that app that's been suggested to keep him on track.
Toddler doesn't nap anymore (& hasn't done for about 8 months) so he has literally got her all day BUT needs to pull his finger out his arse & get creative.

Why are you blaming your kids when you clearly have a cocklodger

No he's not. He works 2×15 hr days at the weekend, is full time carer to a toddler and gets two boys off to school in the morning and looks after the 3 of them after school.

You need clear set roles and responsibilities for everyone
Everyone in charge of tidying up their own stuff and the added onto there. No room to be lazy - they are learning from their father

There's nothing to stop he doing something in the evening when you get home & can be there for the toddler though.

Doesn't have to be hours a night.

He'd probably soon find time to get it done on the day instead!

I'm so sorry, it sounds really hard work, but please don't cancel anything. They're children and I don't know whether compliance through fear and resentment is really worth it. I think business like jollity, festive music, specific instructions and a big treat after could work wonders. These issues are the product of your circumstances, so are possibly ingrained now. Not sure that a huge sweeping change will happen overnight even though you are at your wits end. These attitudes and behaviours need time to change when you and your husband are less frazzled and can work out a plan where you are both on the same page with discipline and management. It's such a stressful time and kids are little tyrants when they want to be. I hope you're feeling better soon and it works out ok.

it takes 5-10 minutes to pick up laundry and put rubbish in the bin.. if your DH is too 'busy' to spend 20 minutes tidying the kids rooms then he is seriously taking the fucking piss... so what if toddler is clingy, she can follow him around and he can even get her to 'help'.

That being said, you both ought to be getting the older children to make it part of their morning routine. Make the bed, washing in basket, rubbish in bin, leave the bedroom tidy before leaving for school!

I have a child with SEN and a 10yo, i'm a pretty chill parent, but I expect the two of them to put their laundry in their basket.. and I withhold electronics till its done.

I also dont allow the kids to have food/drink anywhere other than the kitchen/dining room (that includes sweets), they leave the table without tidying up after themselves, they get hauled back and told to clean it up.

You need to put your foot up your DH's backside and you both need to be getting the older children to do those simple jobs!

It's not just that your husband needs to do more, he needs to be a parents and lay down the law. He is letting the kids get away with everything. Neither of you need to be running around every waking moment you're home if the kids are old enough to clean up after themselves. The house would not be so messy if your husband took charge as an adult whe he is home.

Part of caring for a young child is making sure they have a safe, tidyish, comfortable place to live in, clean clothes to wear etc. If your husband doesn't feel that he is able to provide this, then he should look for full-time work and pay half of the cost of childcare.

From my own experience, if one adult is lazy and the other does all the work around the house, children who are challenged about their own laziness will just say "They don't so it, so why should I?" Even if they are too young to say it, they will follow the easier example. Changing the example they are set is vital.

This whole arrangement isn't working for you so it needs to change. I would refuse to do any extra Christmas-related work and bat that back to your husband. Take yourself off to bed, or visit a friend or anything you like, but make it clear that Daddy is doing Christmas this year.

They sound like normal kids their age Erm no they don't. It sounds like they have become lazy and entitled, and unfortunately they were not born that way so it has to be down to your and/or your DH's parenting. I'm not saying that to put the boot in, just to say that you also have the power to reverse this while they are still young enough for this behaviour not to become entrenched.

Your DH sounds like he is the main problem here. A non-napping toddler isn't an excuse. Surely he can stick a film on for an hour or two a day and get on top of the house work?

I'm glad they have started to tidy up and you are feeling calmer, hopefully this will be a turning point and you can all have a happy Christmas together :)

I'm not sure about some of the responses on here. It sounds like a very stressful family life and her DH is working (up to 30 hours) at the weekend. Ig kids are always home or in/out the house tater than in childcare more opportunities for making mess.

We dont even celebrate xmas but school does seem to hype it up for weeks. I think behaviour can decline in first few days off school as the excitement has built up too much.

If your house is messy all the time the kids are going to struggle to see why it should be cleaned up right now . Messy is their normal.

I'd tidy up. Introduce new routines for new year. And have a pared down Christmas maybe prepared food that you can just put in oven rather than hours of cooking there should be lots of ice things in supermarkets.