SNP and Scotland leaving U.K.

[Hester54]

AIBU to not understand Scotland wishing to leave the U.K., can someone explain to me without being nasty or patronising, why is Scotland’s problem with the U.K.? Even before the U.K. ref

More Scots voted to remain the UK than didn’t. So I think your post should read why do some Scots want independence. Plus not every Scot who voted SNP at the general want independence they just didn’t have any alternative to vote for.

There has always been a nationalist movement in Scotland but it has generally been very much a minority. Sadly, Westminster politics just gets worse and worse, more and more corrupt and incompetent in a relentless spiral to the bottom. For some Scots (a bitter few I'd argue), independence is sadly about a dislike of England. For many more it's an opportunity to break free of the shit show that is Westminster. I wonder how many English people would vote against the very existence of the Westminster establishment if they had some viable option to do so.

lioness88 I think that’s a good idea, I think, England, Wales and NI should have a vote to see if they want to keep Scotland “union”.

I wonder what the benefits are of keeping them in the union?

“not everyone voted Tory but will have to go along with their decision, isn’t that the way democracy works ?”

Not in England no, you might not get the MP you voted for, your MP might not be in government... but your country gets the government it voted for.

The equivalent would be if all the results were the same as last week, but England had a Lib Dem government now...

More Scots voted to remain the UK than didn’t.

That was before Brexit though. Brexit changed everything.

Unfortunately because people are shit, the world was formed on fighting and conquering and brutality, no it’s not right but it’s history and we have to learn from it. The problems Ireland had were much more recent than William Wallace or Robert the Bruce.
Rome conquered the most of Europe there would have been much raping and pillaging, but strangely England doesn’t hate Italy for the crimes of its distant past.
Perspective should mean that we learn from our mistakes but there are people in Scotland who are pretty much racist and hate all English people just because and they make up a large proportion of the 45!

As I said there are also decent people who feel that they have real reasons but also plenty of people with their Scotland the Brave tattoo who watched a movie and ate now incensed!

lioness88 I think that’s a good idea, I think, England, Wales and NI should have a vote to see if they want to keep Scotland “union”.

I wonder what the benefits are of keeping them in the union?

Cool, after all the scaremongering and lies at the first independence referendum then please do so.

I read somewhere the other day that 45% of Scots voted for independence in the referendum, and at the general election 45% voted for the (independence backing) SNP

So it still doesn't sound as if a majority want to leave the UK does it?

More Scots voted to remain the UK than didn’t.

I read that as more Scots voted to remain part of the UK.

Is that what you meant?

*I clearly need more coffee.

The Westminster government runs for the benefit of the whole UK... (leaving aside whether people agree that it actually does, that is the purpose of it) so policies reflect that, but Scotland quite often has separate issues that aren’t relevant to whole country policies

Not quite, the Church of Scotland, who were a powerful force refused to sanction the Act of Union until Scotland's institutions of Church, education and Scots law were fully protected. There has always been a form of administrative devolution in Scotland. So, it's not just if a policy was relevant. It had to be adapted to conform to the pre-existing institutions.

Someone else said there had been a recent resurgence in identity. I don't think this is the case, I think our identity has been shaped by these institutions and were more able to see the divergence across the UK and that Holyrood can't solve the Democratic deficit. Not so much as realising our identity as realising we don't fit with current English identity.

@Hohonoshow my last post was a reply to you sorry.

@lioness88 maybe you should I think sometimes we deserve that, however that would also fuel the fires and cause more hatred when most of us like being your neighbours.

In what way are the Parliament decisions having such a bad effect on Scotland, we’ve had Scottish Prime ministers recently did that not help ?

Yes @RobinBlues that’s what I meant sorry .

Scotland is still sore about Panama...

In what way are the Parliament decisions having such a bad effect on Scotland, we’ve had Scottish Prime ministers recently did that not help ?

There will probably never be a Scottish based MP again because of EVEL.

wonder what the benefits are of keeping them in the union?

Oh you would have to get that answer from Westminster, if we were such a bunch of free loading drain on resources etc that we are made out to be you would think Westminister would be desperate to get rid of us wouldn't you?

Plus not every Scot who voted SNP at the general want independence they just didn’t have any alternative to vote for

This makes me laugh when I see it quoted, especially in regard to being against another referendum for independence.... If you vote for the SNP you know what you're voting for, they don't make a secret of it!

@Hester54 I think there have only been 7 in the last 100 years. Recently Tony and Gordon but Tony Blair didn’t sound it seem Scottish. Gordon Brown however is properly Scottish.

Let’s not forget over 1 million Scots voted to leave the EU so 1/5 of Scotland wanted brexit . I think 1,700,000 voted to remain .

“Not quite, the Church of Scotland, who were a powerful force refused to sanction the Act of Union until Scotland's institutions of Church, education and Scots law were fully protected. There has always been a form of administrative devolution in Scotland. So, it's not just if a policy was relevant. It had to be adapted to conform to the pre-existing institutions.”

Of course... I was giving a very broad answer...

Everyone in Scotland had plenty of choices of party's to vote for. In fact, the only policy the Torys had was to tell Sturgeon no more indeyrefs. It didn't work out for them. 🤣

“”we’ve had Scottish Prime ministers recently did that not help ?”

Why would it? The issue isn’t where people are from, it’s how it’s run.

And it was a good one, I'm astonished how little people know about the history of the Act of Union, the UK, devolution or independence I'm feeling compelled to chip in as much info as I can. Can you tell I've been driven mad since Friday. 🤣

@Amortentia Johnston or Corbyn is hardly plenty of choices .

geekone I would have thought that was about right population percentage wise

tabulahrasa But surly they would have been more sympathetic to Scottish needs?