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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell XP DS wont be seeing him?

548 replies

Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 21:29

Background.
XP was abusive. Mostly verbal and emotional, but occasionally physical. He has not seen DS1 for 7 years. DS is now 15. We would disagree about the reasons for this.
He would blame me 100%. I would blame us both.
Ultimately after 2 years in court indirect contact only was ordered which XP has not done until he started sporadically 12 months ago.

He wants to see DS. DS doesn't want to see him. I, his counsellor and the school all believe he is old enough to have his wishes respected. He can articulate the reasons he doesn't want to see his dad, and they are reasonable.

XP disagrees and says he cannot respect DSs wishes until he has spent some time in his company directly and DS articulate directly to him why he doesn't want to see him. If he is old enough to have his wishes respected, he is old enough to explain them directly to XP. If he isn't mature enough for this then he isn't mature enough to make the decision.

We last disagreed over this in September and since then I have heard nothing from him, until today.

I have received a message which says ...

"I intend to be at your house on 24th December. I will have stuff for DS. Arrange for him to be in my company for hour to see if we can sort things out. This isnt an unreasonable ask. If hes as mature as you say then I am confident he can manage it"

He sends me into a complete panic. And I have spent the last 2 hours trying to compose a reply and then redoing it because he makes me feel unreasonable and I end up either saying too much and it becomes and essay or it becomes too short and abrasive.

AIBU to just reply ....

Feel free to drop the presents off. DS will not be available to see you.

Any better suggestions?

OP posts:
Babybel90 · 15/12/2019 22:28

But he doesn’t have to justify himself if he doesn’t want to and it’s a bit much to expect a 15 year old to tell an adult face to face why they don’t like them.

Could your son write him a letter so he can see it’s genuinely him saying it and not just you?

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 15/12/2019 22:31

You can’t call the police unfortunately, it is a civil matter.

Ignore this OP. you absolutely can phone the police if he turns up at your door after being explicitly told not to. If the police decide it’s not their job to deal with, they^ can tell you that. But you can ring them.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 22:35

Alternative The problem with that is the DS doesn't feel safe with his dad and so doesn't want to see him. He doesn't see why he should have to see him just because his dad wants him too. He doesn't trust me to keep him safe with his dad (and fair and super sad indictment of how much I failed him when he was younger).

OP posts:
FizzyGreenWater · 15/12/2019 22:35

'You are not welcome here, even more so if you try and dictate it. Stay away.
DS does not have to justify himself to you. Contact is a privilege not a right. Your past violent behaviour makes that go double. I support DS in not having to be bullied into a meeting he doesn't want. If he changes his mind I would also support that. I don't care if you believe that or not, because I don't have to justify myself either.
I suggest you write to DS and I am willing to ask him if he will reply with his reasons for not wanting contact.'

trilbydoll · 15/12/2019 22:38

I'd find it challenging to tell an adult face to face that I didn't want to see them, without any backstory. Asking a 15yo to do it to an adult is a big ask, even more so when that adult has a history of abuse.

If DS wanted to, I'd let him, but assuming he doesn't then have a day out on Christmas Eve. Leave a note on the front door for XP.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 22:38

Queen He won't write letters - he thinks they are weird. We've had some emails but to an email address set up specifically for them with the password given to his nan to share with DS. When she tried to give DS the password he said he didn't want anything to do with XP. It couldn't go to his normal email address or mine, because he needs to know the password so he can log in to see if the emails have been read .......

OP posts:
Tiggycat · 15/12/2019 22:38

It sounds like your XP is trying to control the situation by putting you on the spot . If you have court orders in place use them.
You know what’s best for your DS and even at 15 it’s not a nice situation to be put Into.
It sounds like your trying to protect your DS.
You are doing the right thing.

FizzyGreenWater · 15/12/2019 22:39

You can call the police if you've told him to stay away and he still comes.

You could always ring and ask them for advice in advance.

Chloemol · 15/12/2019 22:40

So I would say you can drop the presents off, if dd is here then fine but it’s his choice. However why doesn’t dd write his father a letter explaining why he doesn’t want to see him, you hand that over at the door job done

FizzyGreenWater · 15/12/2019 22:41

'You are not welcome here, even more so if you try and dictate it. Stay away.
DS does not have to justify himself to you. Contact is a privilege not a right. Your past violent behaviour makes that go double. I support DS in not having to be bullied into a meeting he doesn't want. If he changes his mind I would also support that. I don't care if you believe that or not, because I don't have to justify myself either.
DS is adamant that he wants nothing to do with you. He wouldn't even take the password for your email account. You are not going to have the face to face meeting you want because DS does not want to and that's his right. Leave us alone.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 15/12/2019 22:42

I wouldn’t even let him come with presents. Can he leave them with family?

myidentitymycrisis · 15/12/2019 22:43

His continued attempts to force his version of how mature your DS is and to lay down conditions is ongoing evidence of his abusive behaviour.

He doesn’t want to see him because he has had no positive input into DS life for 7 years. The reason for this was due to his abuse I presume and was directed by the court. He chose to not take up the contact he was offered and this is the outcome.

I would redirect to the indirect contact order and point out that nothing has changed

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 22:44

Sorry lots of other posts ...

I don't know if an indirect contact order means that hes not allowed direct contact. XP says it doesn't. I have emailed the Childrens legal centre to check.

OP posts:
BuffaloCauliflower · 15/12/2019 22:46

If indirect contact only DOESNT mean no direct contact, what the heck else would it mean? Hmm

SusieSusieSoo · 15/12/2019 22:47

Protect ds, also don't let xp ruin ds' Christmas go out for the whole day so he can't do that. It's not fair to expect ds to explain his reasons so don't facilitate xp here this is about xp wanting to please himself not about what's best for dc x

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 22:49

Ha buffalo. The indirect contact order was put in place at my solicitors request (in order to make it clear what I had to facilitate) after XP withdrew his application for direct contact after seeing the CAFCASS recommendations. It does not specifically prohibit direct contact from XP and therefore it means he can attempt it. It just means that I am not forced by the court to facilitate it. Or so he says :)

OP posts:
myidentitymycrisis · 15/12/2019 22:52

Say he does not want to see you and if he continues to contact you regarding this matter it will be reported as harassment to the police.
He is trying to intimidate you

Cluckyandconfused · 15/12/2019 22:53

I wholeheartedly disagree with the posters saying that your son should explain his reasons in person to his father. At 15, he can express his wishes and have them taken into account but he is still a child and may not be confident enough to tell his dad in person that he doesn’t want to see him. It seems from the message and how he is going about it, that his dad is still a bully.
I would send him a straight forward message outlining the current legal arrangement (indirect contact), lack of contact for many years, your sons wishes and your intention to call police if he harasses you at home.
He’s probably seeking to re-write history as your son is approaching adulthood.

BinkyandBunty · 15/12/2019 22:53

Your son knows full well that any attempt to explain himself is guling to end in him being gaslighted and bullied by his father.

You are doing the right thing protecting him from further control and abuse. Please ignore anyone on this thread who says otherwise; I very much doubt they would if they had any experience of this situation.

BinkyandBunty · 15/12/2019 22:54

*going

titchy · 15/12/2019 22:56

Just text him: ds has reiterated that he doesn't want to see you and won't on Christmas Eve. If you still wish to drop presents off you can.'

Then if/when he comes round ds stays upstairs. You answer the door with your phone in hand and be prepared to phone the police if he gets aggressive or tries to force him way in.

Please don't go out for the day - this is yours and ds's home.

averythinline · 15/12/2019 22:59

It doesn't matter what he says .. why are you even having a conversation with him about this?
Reply he is not to come to your house.
Nothing more is needed.
Stand up for yourself and your ds.
If he turns up and you are in don't answer the door, if he kicks off cal the police

cherryblossomgin · 15/12/2019 23:00

If DS can't say it why not suggest writing a letter explaining why he doesn't want to see him. Thats only if DS wants to explain. XP isn't owed anything. If you are ok with him bringing presents round let him know that you won't be forcing DS to be there . Or ask to meet in a public place.

cherryblossomgin · 15/12/2019 23:01

Sorry just noticed some else said letters.

Andysbestadventure · 15/12/2019 23:06

So protect him now, OP. Remind his father he is not permitted direct contact, DS has ZERO interest in seeing him, and tell him if he turns up or contacts you again you will press for harrassment charges. He is harrassing you and a minor, regardless of his relationship to DS.

Also block the cunt.