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AIBU?

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Original poster

To tell XP DS wont be seeing him?

548 replies

Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 21:29

Background.
XP was abusive. Mostly verbal and emotional, but occasionally physical. He has not seen DS1 for 7 years. DS is now 15. We would disagree about the reasons for this.
He would blame me 100%. I would blame us both.
Ultimately after 2 years in court indirect contact only was ordered which XP has not done until he started sporadically 12 months ago.

He wants to see DS. DS doesn't want to see him. I, his counsellor and the school all believe he is old enough to have his wishes respected. He can articulate the reasons he doesn't want to see his dad, and they are reasonable.

XP disagrees and says he cannot respect DSs wishes until he has spent some time in his company directly and DS articulate directly to him why he doesn't want to see him. If he is old enough to have his wishes respected, he is old enough to explain them directly to XP. If he isn't mature enough for this then he isn't mature enough to make the decision.

We last disagreed over this in September and since then I have heard nothing from him, until today.

I have received a message which says ...

"I intend to be at your house on 24th December. I will have stuff for DS. Arrange for him to be in my company for hour to see if we can sort things out. This isnt an unreasonable ask. If hes as mature as you say then I am confident he can manage it"

He sends me into a complete panic. And I have spent the last 2 hours trying to compose a reply and then redoing it because he makes me feel unreasonable and I end up either saying too much and it becomes and essay or it becomes too short and abrasive.

AIBU to just reply ....

Feel free to drop the presents off. DS will not be available to see you.

Any better suggestions?

OP posts:
magoria · 16/12/2019 11:44

A simple

No, that doesn't suit us and goes against the court ordered indirect contact."

If he turns up either don't open the door or tell him to go away. If he doesnt go call the police.

Ayemama · 16/12/2019 11:52

Your DS is 15 and has been promised by yourself that he doesn't have to see his dad again if he doesn't want to. Stick to that and that's al you have to tell yout ex.

Set up a specific email address that's only for him to contact you through, give him that tell him this is the only way you will have contact with him going forward and block him on everything else, if he does contact you some other way then ignore it.

If hes being more and more aggressive about things contact the police, if he shows up at your house after being told not to, call the police.

At least with the email address thing you will have everything he says in writing and you are still allowing some form of contact.

And no a 15 year old who doesn't want to see his abusive father shouldn't have to tell him so face to face, only a bully would think that.

ohwheniknow · 16/12/2019 12:13

Why are people suggesting a child should be forced to meet with his abuser to justify to the abuser wanting to be kept safe from that abuser?! Fucking hell.

Dontdisturbmenow · 16/12/2019 12:35

Tell him that you've discuss it with you DS, that he has confirmed that he still isn't ready or interested to meet with him and that you won't force him to do so. That dropping presents is pointless as your DS wont accept them.

Say that that if your DS changes his mind and wants to meet him, youll help facilitating it, but it is not the case at this point.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 12:39

@LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood

It doesn't directly say he cannot have direct contact so on that basis he is probably correct and he can come up.

The order says ...

The Respondent mother shall make the children available for indirect contact only with the applicant father, limited to letters, cards and gifts. Not to exceed 1 letter per week and age appropriate cards and gifts at Birthdays and Christmas

OP posts:
DropOfffArtiste · 16/12/2019 12:41

Indirect contact only is indirect contact only. No direct contact. Seems pretty clear.

Areyoufree · 16/12/2019 12:43

Ugh - that message! This isn't an unreasonable ask. If he's as mature as you say then I am confident he can manage it. God, he sounds like my Dad, who is a complete narcissistic prick.

Just...ugh. YANBU.

maddening · 16/12/2019 12:45

So he can only contact via letters, cards and gifts, it doesn't even allow for email. You are not obliged to do anything more.

It even limits to one per week, poss to avoid harassment, so stick to your guns on this.

Blacksackunderthetreesfreeze · 16/12/2019 12:46

“I intend to be at your house” is such an abusive twat thing to say.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 12:48

DropOfff the argument from XP is that sentence is ordering me to do something. It is not ordering him not to do something. So I have to facilitate the indirect contact if he chooses to take advantage of it but in the event he chooses to pursue direct contact he does so in the knowledge that i do not have to facilitate it and can be unreasonable about it. If the court wanted him to have no direct contact the order would state that.

Circles circles round we go :) At least I can half laugh about it these days!

OP posts:
geekone · 16/12/2019 12:50

@Chaosdragon indirect contact only means that he is not allowed direct contact. It doesn’t need to say direct contact not allowed, your ex is still messing with you. The statement indirect contact only means exactly that no direct contact. More than that the order doesn’t allow more than one contact a week so it’s pretty strong. Please just say no, that he is not welcome and that you will call the police if he persists. You need to do that for your DS to show him now that you can protect him. Honestly I would even let the police know that he is wanting to come round, he’s not allowed and that you are worried he will anyway.

Please protect your son. Get back to your ex now please.

DropOfffArtiste · 16/12/2019 12:51

The court order limits to indirect contact only. This is because in their view direct contact would be harmful for DS.

If direct contact was permitted (even the indirect contact is limited!), it would say that.

He is wrong. He knows this, but thinks he can still bully you (and DS)

CoatTails · 16/12/2019 12:53

Oh just tell him to FUCK OFF

maddening · 16/12/2019 12:56

And that order does refer to him - else why the "age Appropriate cards and gifts" part - it is telling him what he can and can't do as much as it is telling you what you are obliged to facilitate.

Jeezoh · 16/12/2019 12:56

“I do not agree that the court order allows you to have direct contact. If you wish to pursue direct contact, against the wishes of ds, you should raise this with your solicitor in the first instance”

ineedto · 16/12/2019 12:57

Simply the order states you have to facilitate INDIRECT Contact ONLY. Tell him you will not break the order.

You are doing the right thing by your son, he is the only person you have to concern yourself about.

maddening · 16/12/2019 12:58

And it does not allow for emails, Skype or phone calls - says alot about how he is viewed as an abuser by the courts. He can't be trusted to even have a phone call in the best interests of his son.

Quartz2208 · 16/12/2019 13:00

OP it is telling you that is ALL you have to do. Nothing more, nothing less. It is exactly telling you no direct contact (from what you have said a CAFCAS report said exactly that)

He isnt correct, direct contact isnt allowed. Legalase can sometimes be confusing but he certainly should not be allowed in your home to see either you or your son

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 13:00

Ha oh how I wish I had the balls to say that.

I have gone for a slightly more tactful yet hopefully forceful enough.

As discussed in September DS does not want to see you and does not have to. The only person who believes his wishes should not be respected is you. It is not OK for you to come to the house - do not do so. If you wish to send gifts please do so via your mum. We are seeing her on Monday.

OP posts:
Thestrangestthing · 16/12/2019 13:01

I don't care how old a child is, their wishes should be respected when it comes to contact with abusive parents. I would say,

"as previously discussed, ds does not want contact with you. I think it's best if you be mature enough to respect that decision".

Thestrangestthing · 16/12/2019 13:02

Oh cross post, basically exactly what I would have said.

5LeafClover · 16/12/2019 13:04

Perfect message. Assuming that you are confident that he won't turn up at his mum's?

Winterdaysarehere · 16/12/2019 13:09

The very fact he thinks a real life court order doesn't apply to him is reason enough to tell him to do one...
Indirect means no physical viewing!!
Via post as in not via you!!. What an absolute arse - guess you already know that though!!.

katmarie · 16/12/2019 13:09

Indirect contact only means you are only required to facilitate indirect contact. You are not required by that instruction to facilitate direct contact. While he clearly will try and argue that the order doesn't block him from having direct contact, you are not required to facilitate it. Sometimes these things are left vague to give parents who can agree contact together room to move forward if indirect contact is successful enough that the child/parents want to have direct contact. That's obviously not the case here. So you will be within the bounds of the court order if you tell him to fuck off and never darken your doorstep again. Politely of course. Wink

katmarie · 16/12/2019 13:12

Cross posted. Perfect reply op! Polite and firm with no wiggle room.