To tell XP DS wont be seeing him?

[Chaosdragon]

Background.
XP was abusive. Mostly verbal and emotional, but occasionally physical. He has not seen DS1 for 7 years. DS is now 15. We would disagree about the reasons for this.
He would blame me 100%. I would blame us both.
Ultimately after 2 years in court indirect contact only was ordered which XP has not done until he started sporadically 12 months ago.

He wants to see DS. DS doesn't want to see him. I, his counsellor and the school all believe he is old enough to have his wishes respected. He can articulate the reasons he doesn't want to see his dad, and they are reasonable.

XP disagrees and says he cannot respect DSs wishes until he has spent some time in his company directly and DS articulate directly to him why he doesn't want to see him. If he is old enough to have his wishes respected, he is old enough to explain them directly to XP. If he isn't mature enough for this then he isn't mature enough to make the decision.

We last disagreed over this in September and since then I have heard nothing from him, until today.

I have received a message which says ...

"I intend to be at your house on 24th December. I will have stuff for DS. Arrange for him to be in my company for hour to see if we can sort things out. This isnt an unreasonable ask. If hes as mature as you say then I am confident he can manage it"

He sends me into a complete panic. And I have spent the last 2 hours trying to compose a reply and then redoing it because he makes me feel unreasonable and I end up either saying too much and it becomes and essay or it becomes too short and abrasive.

AIBU to just reply ....

Feel free to drop the presents off. DS will not be available to see you.

Any better suggestions?

Well said @Chaosdragon :)

@Chaosdragon Unfortunately when the kids are teens it becomes much harder to maintain the victim narrative as they know the kids can speak for themselves so it's all ramped up. to you.

@Chaosdragon so glad to hear that you’re holding up and staying strong. When you posted his ‘reasonable’ reply it resonated so much with me. It can take years to get to a place where you recognise that what may seem reasonable is, in fact, manipulative. I’m so so glad you didn’t fall for it. I think you’re being an amazing mother. Will be thinking of you on Christmas Eve.

• Sorry, but I agree with your ex. This is a conversation between father and son, that has to happen sometime. If your ex is presented with the facts and feelings, he is more likely to back off. Until then, he won't. I do believe that both should have their say.*

Would you tell an abused adult that they should their abuser have their say?

You clearly have no experience of abuse if you think an abused person can freely say what they think and that abusers will listen and back off. Abusers think that their feelings trump other people's and I suspect if what you suggest happened, the Dad will get angry and scare the child and there'd be a risk of Dad saying something really awful and not leaving until he's heard (ie until the son backs down)

Luckily the legal system agrees that teenagers are able to make that decision for themselves.

Cotswolds To be fair I did think it was reasonable so I've still got a way to go on that obviously. I'm so used to being told I'm a mentally useless idiot by him that anything that deviates from that makes me stop and blink and instantly question why I am being so difficult!

I also think part of the issue is that I do feel sorry for him. He didn't have an amazing childhood and despite everything that's gone on between us he isn't a complete monster. He has good points and there are things I know hes done for his friends and how he acts with them which contrast so much with how he was / is with me that I do sometimes wonder if it really was / is me which makes him that way.

Both DS and XP have very similar interests and if things were different they could have done so much together - its sad and that's the bit that's difficult for me. I wanted DS to have both a mum and dad in his life even if we weren't together and it's been very difficult to accept that hes better off without him :(

OP, I really think it's very important that you remember that the best interests and the safety and wellbeing (emotional and psychological as well as physical) of your son are paramount in this situation.

Everything, and everyone, says that your son's best interests are served by not having to directly interact and communicate with your ex-partner. The courts, the school, the counsellor, and your son. Listen to them. Trust them.

Then do your job. As your DS's mother, you get the happy job of ensuring your son does not have to interact with your ex-partner. Not easy, especially when you have been abused and manipulated, and moulded by this person to tend to accede to his 'requests'.

Feel more sorry for yourself and your son. Your ex-partner didn't have a great childhood? Um, well, lots of people don't have a great childhood. That doesn't give them a free pass to abuse, coerce and manipulate others. It doesn't excuse it.

And he's still trying to do it with you and your son!

You're doing so well. Keep doing so well, for you and your son. I hope very much that your ex-partner is all talk and no trousers, and that you have a lovely Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. And I hope your dog looks and acts like Kujo if he does come a knocking. . .

I didn't have an amazing childhood, brought up in poverty, mum in sanitarium twice, in foster care twice, dad away with OW. Didn't turn me into an abusive twat.

I'm not saying his childhood excuses his behaviour. It's just his parents separated when he was young because of his mums affair. Saw his dad twice a year, didn't get on with his stepdad and moved in with another family member when he was 14 because his stepdad attacked him. I remember him saying how much he wanted to not be like that when he had kids of his own. Ironic really. But it's just sad that this is how things have ended up between him and DS

But XP has to change. That's his problem and his responsibility. Not mine. I have to keep DS safe first. XP was given many chances by the courts before they finally went for the indirect order and whilst I understand why they did the emotional and mental impact it all had on DS (and me) was huge. It took a very long time for us to both recover and there is no way DS is going through that again when it appears XP has not yet even admitted his behaviour is part of the problem never mind started to address it.

This is possibly going to sound weird, but I'm going to be thinking of you and your DS on Christmas Eve. I really do hope you have a good one, and ex-p pulls his horns in.

@Chaosdragon Yes, you did say you thought it was reasonable initially but you stood firm anyway.

Everything you say is so familiar to me. I had years of being told I was ‘difficult’. And for what it’s worth, it’s very clear from your posts that you are switched on, thoughtful and a million miles from a mentally useless idiot.

The majority of abusers have a lovely side to them. It’s why bright, intelligent women like you can get sucked in and stay for so long. And remember that you did not choose for DS to not have a father. XP’s behaviour made that choice for you.

I said it before and I’ll say it again, I think you’re amazing. Keep going.

I had to facilitate indirect contact with my ex. That involved only sending his school report and a photo every year. Your ex has been given the same and has not been granted direct contact and is breaching a court order if he tries to force the issue. He is playing you and trying to cause you to doubt yourself. Call the police if he arrives.

I'd pretend I hadn't seen it. He doesn't know you still have the same number.

Also, be out.

And don't answer if he calls. He doesn't know this is still your number unless you answer/respond.

Also my abusive ex walks people's dogs, helps them move house, does them massive favours. All it proves is that they know how to behave to get people to like them. It's no more you're fault than mine that they treat US like shit. It's on them. They know how they should behave and pull out all the stops when anyone is watching but they're nasty bastards underneath.

Put it this way: is there anything you can imagine your DS doing that would cause you to treat him the way your ex treated you? Are you even capable of believing someone else deserves to be treated that way? And yet you believe that you, yourself, may have deserved it. You didn't. He was horrible to your son, his son, too, who you do know didn't deserve it. You have the right to be an imperfect human being without being abused for it.

Yanbu. Given he’s been abusive in the past coming round to your house feels part of a pattern. Tell him that he can’t come to your house and if he does you will not answer and will call police.

Hes only abusive with you (although I doubt that is true), because he thinks he can. It's in no way your fault. You could be the most annoying and obnoxious person (you clearly arent) and it still wouldnt make it your fault that he was emotionally and physically abusive. And if he had any sense hed be looking at his behaviour from that time and seriously considering what he did wrong. But clearly hes not doing that.

I have been thinking of you and will also be thinking of you on Christmas eve.

@MzHz

You know nothing of me and my life, so you can frankly fuck right off with your patronising comments.

OP, I must apologise if I caused offence, by saying that your son should speak with his father. I meant that it may help to bring closure to the situation, as opposed to your ex being owed anything by either of you. Of course it's difficult if your son doesn't want to speak to him, and this in no way should be forced.
Wishing you and your son all the very best, and fingers crossed for a happy and peaceful Christmas.

He hasn't seen him for half your ds's life. 7 years. He's not a father and certainly shouldn't be making demands. I'm not surprised your ds doesn't want to see him.

Dieu

Right back atcha.
If you had ANY kind of insight you’d not have spewed such crap in the first place.

“I’m sorry if I caused offence” is a non apology

Op deserves better than that.

Dieu if you'd read the thread you would have seen that the OP says many times that DS doesn't want to see or speak to his father.

I can't believe there are still people out there who think that the abusers wishes comes first, and the OP and a child should be jumping to put themselves in front of him again. To be controlled, manipulated and abused - for why else would an abuser want to see ds? Control OP? For HIS OWN desires, and NO other reason - certainly not so he can apologise, make things better, have a normal and loving relationship with his son. Certainly not.

And even the courts have recognised this. EX has HAD his say, in court.

And anyone who think s that DS presenting himself in front of Abuser is 'bringing closure' is deluded. NO WAY would this bring closure - in fact, quite the opposite - it will bring renewed abuse and further bullying and more control over their lives and there will NEVER be an end to it.

Until OP and DS make a stand. Which they are trying to do - and which is being undermined by posts like yours, @Dieu

The classic example of the backpedalling non-pology.