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To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

847 replies

StormzysHat · 15/12/2019 13:45

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

OP posts:

Am I being unreasonable?

935 votes. Final results.

You are being unreasonable
You are NOT being unreasonable
ethelfleda · 18/12/2019 08:27

It is not lazy Trewser
I am saying that this is possibly ONE of the many reasons and you can’t just discount it.

The thing is - I am not egomaniac that will protect my point of view at all costs. I am open minded and I do really hope that I am wrong. Only time will tell at this stage... but we can’t just say one point of view is lazy and the other is valid just because of which ‘side’ you are on. I think they’re all valid points.

ethelfleda · 18/12/2019 08:29

The thug is... consider for one moment that I might be right and the country may have lurched right. If we don’t talk about it, how can we figure out why that has happened or what consequences it may hold? We can boot out momentum, elect a new labour leader and try and make the Labour Party more electable again... but bringing the country back to the centre will be much harder. It is a cultural thing and that is far more complex than politics.

ethelfleda · 18/12/2019 08:29

*thing sorry! Wow

Trewser · 18/12/2019 08:33

Yes of course important to look at both sides. I remember the Thatcher years, Love Thy Neighbour on tv and section 28 and smashing the unions. So it's hard to look at the new crop of diverse MPs and not think that we've become hugely more tolerant as a nation. Also looking at Europe the growth of the proper Far Right is huge, that isn't happening here.

Boulshired · 18/12/2019 08:54

If it is purely a move to the right part of the problem is when Labour talks of poverty and the poor, there is a belief they are not the poor being talked about and not the poor going to be helped. Whether this is real or perceived is another matter.

loobyloo1234 · 18/12/2019 08:54

I voted Labour. But the way JC and Momentum conducted themselves, I am not surprised the Cons got in. I have nothing in common with BJ. I am working to middle class. He will not help me. Ever. And I cannot relate to him nor their policies. I wanted a fairer and better life for everyone

JC and Momentum have taken Labour so far to the left, that given most of the country is centrist, they will be impossible to vote for, for so many. Many northern towns and cities will see a rise in poverty - and the irony is, its all Labour's fault as they made people too scared to vote for them

ethelfleda · 18/12/2019 08:55

Trewser I don’t remember those years. I guess our experiences shape our values and view points and that makes a big difference to our beliefs and who we vote for.

I would love nothing more than for us to have this conversation in 5 years time, and for you to say ‘well, Ethel - look how much the country has prospered and the poverty gap narrowed since Brexit happened and BJ got in to power - the NHS is thriving and we are generally doing well’
And I would say ‘you’re right, Trewser. I’m going to vote Tory in this election. Let’s have a beer and celebrate’

But I’m afraid that won’t happen. I am anxious for the future.

Xenia · 18/12/2019 08:58

We will see where we are in 5 years but unless Corbyn's successor returns Labour to the middle of the road policies that have got Labour elected in the past rather than pie in the sky 4 day weeks, free broadband, taking 10% of big companies away, nationalisation they will not get elected in 5 years' time. They might maintain their socialist purity which is fine with me as I would like 10 years of Tory rule but will not get them elected.

Trewser · 18/12/2019 09:00

The private school thing unnerved people as well. Even people I know who don't educate privately found the concept of 'assimilation' scary.

CharlottesPleb · 18/12/2019 09:05

just because of which ‘side’ you are on.

Got to say, having a side to be on, or indeed having anyone in politics on your side, is a luxury most people have not enjoyed for a long time.

This is something people forget when they are looking for a polarized world that suits their narrative. A lot of people are down to "which one is a bit less likely to hurt my kids".

koshkat · 18/12/2019 09:49

The popularity of Boris is no mystery. Boris doesn't seem to like women very much. About half the country finds this relatable.

Such bullshit. It is JC who wants to redefine the word 'woman' (to include men), who wants to reform the GRA and to take away our sex based rights through amending the EA2010. He and Dawn Butler plus many others in the sad mess of the Labour Party HATE women. Wake the fuck up!

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 18/12/2019 10:13

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koshkat · 18/12/2019 10:22

Oh and let's not forget letting men on to all women shortlists...

thetoddleratemyhomework · 18/12/2019 10:54

Labour had the chance to present itself as a genuinely progressive party. Instead, from the perspective of a floating voter who has happily voted labour in the past (and spoiled my ballot this time), labour look like a party for campaigners whose main message is that it doesn't really like: 1) posh people; 2) anyone who isn't posh but might consider voting Tory; 3) Jewish people. Jeremy Corbyn also seemingly doesn't like the armed forces or the queen and Emily Thornberry seemingly hates working class people.

And labour also looks like it doesn't care that much about 1) people who voted Brexit; and 2) women (see the gender debate, lack of condemnation of FGM, sex segregation at meeting etc). Seriously, try to build a coalition of voters out of that lot!!

Labour could have spent 3 years promoting a second referendum if it had wanted to. And I believe it could have done so whilst not alienating some of the core vote that voted Tory and by winning lots of centralists who balked at their socialist vision. It could have gone into the Brexit labour heartlands, listened to people and considered what factors made people vote out and considered what measures could have been put in place to assuage some of those concerns. This is not far fetched - immigration was obviously a concern. But my personal view is that some of the people who voted out voted that way because they were tired of being told by politicians of all persuasions that there was nothing that could be done for them because of the EU. This is total rubbish - my parents live in France - you do not get access to healthcare on day 1, nor can you just start as a self employed contractor on day 1 - in each case, you have to prove that you can support yourself without reliance on the French state and have a tax record before you qualify for state support. The same goes for many other countries in the EU - I have friends in Denmark who have had to prove their resources before renting and before accessing state services (like healthcare/childcare - they both work). These other countries are not racist and they are all acting in accordance with EU laws. It is the fault of all parties that the debate has been presented in the Uk as a choice between an EU immigration free for all in which people who rely heavily on state support worry that they might lose out if there is less in the pot vs. leave the EU and close the borders. Labour could have won by addressing the debate about managed immigration head on. It could have put together a centralist remainer package that involved a rebalancing towards regions outside London and made a genuine offer to its heartlands that involved membership of the EU whilst meeting some of people's concerns and explaining why its approach worked better for everyone. But it didn't bother. The party leadership, sat in north London, decided that a part of its core base would always vote labour when it came down to it and if a few didn't then it didn't matter, they were stupid racists anyway. And it preferred ideological purity over genuinely centralist ideas.

singledadstu · 18/12/2019 11:08

Ethal I am not a Tory , labourite, lefty , righty or liberal. I vote at each election with thought . Nobody can be voting any particular party just because

Trewser · 18/12/2019 11:12

Couldn't agree more thetoddleratemyhomework

I think that's why I am so angry with the LP. They had such a good chance and they screwed it up.

RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 18/12/2019 11:25

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Xenia · 18/12/2019 11:27

Yes, the toddler has it right. IN amy EU countries if you are from anotehr Eu state you have to register and fill in all kinds of paperwork so the idea that people from Spain living here might have to start to do that is not really awful and racisti - it is what the other Eu states do.

There were a lot of issues in this election so hard to generalise the nub of Labour policies did not feel right to traditional labour voters eg the self declaration of gender which Mrs May did not proceed with but Labour seems to want, the constant barrage of new bribes - the older women's pensions, the 4 day weeks, the up to £500 per worker in big companies in return for Labour taking 10% of those companies' shares away and putting them into state hands. It just felr rather old fashioned and strange and people knew it wouldn't really work.

staydazzling · 18/12/2019 11:35

im a northerner from a socioeconomically deprived area i voted remain and labour. i think the Rotherham Scandal and others similar spelt the end for the softy Labour approach. but at least they don't want ppl to starve and be homeless.

feelingverylazytoday · 18/12/2019 11:36

I seem to remember the labour party being warned about this years ago, but obviously they chose to ignore it.
My son has just graduated in politics, so I tend to take note of what he has to say. He predicted a Tory landslide months ago. He also believes the EU is doomed anyway, and has been for years (though he's a Remain and Labour voter himself).

Person23 · 18/12/2019 11:52

@crispysausagerolls "The thing is, Boris at least went and did the schmoozing and listened to people and is probably fairly likeable. He’s sort of an “apologetic toff”. “Yes yes, I know, I’m a posho! I have silly hair - let’s have a beer though and tell me about your thoughts”. He did it very well. His speech thanking people for lending him their vote was also believably humble and in good taste. Corbyn’s refusal to accept any responsibility for his catastrophic defeat on the other hand shows how HE DOES NOT FUCKING LISTEN TO PEOPLE.

Corbyn is unlikeable and standoffish. No one wants to have a beer with him. No one relates to him. He pretends he’s one of the people but isn’t and couldn’t give a straight answer re Brexit preference."

What are you talking about? Corbyn also toured the country engaging with voters, and there were huge crowds of people across the country who clearly would have happily shared a beer with him - your comments here are just as blinkered as those from Labour supporters saying people only voted for Tories because they don't care about others. At least try not to be hypocritical in your responses.

And as for the blizzard comment about Corbyn taking no responsibility, he literally wrote a letter accepting FULL responsibility and saying he was going to step down.

defaultusername · 18/12/2019 11:55

This election, and the referendum, has confirmed that yes indeed, 50% of the population have below average intelligence.

Couple that with the proportion that have self-interest, love of money, etc at the root of their vote, we're done for.

MrHodgeymaheg · 18/12/2019 12:00

Unfortunately Brexit influenced the vote. I do think it's absolutely nuts that people voted for Conservatives citing austerity as a reason. Do they not know who has been running the country for the last 10 years 😂

I voted Labour, but they should never agreed to an election they would never win, not until Brexit had been done anyway. I didn't mind Corbyn, but he wasn't popular enough to win and he should have left ages ago. We need a centrist party desperately now.

Despite the majority, I still say never say never to another election before the 5 years is up, or at least some civil unrest if nothing changes for the better. I cling on to the fact that as per the previous few years, anything can happen.

On a positive note, at least the Conservatives will totally own this Brexit shitstorm and can't blame anyone else now.

MarySidney · 18/12/2019 12:03

yes indeed, 50% of the population have below average intelligence.

Er, yes. That's what average means.

defaultusername · 18/12/2019 12:08

I know that.

It's when 50% of the population jumps up and down saying "don't call us thick" while acting thick that brings this home to me. And others.

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