To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

[CouldBeAGreatMum]

Tommy Robinson has endorsed Boris's government...

[ethelfleda]

And by the way, in case you didn’t read my earlier posts - the ‘Workington Man’ is a phrase coined by the Tories. And were precisely the voter they were trying to target in the north. They profiled him and knew they would appeal with their simple slogan. And it worked.

[MotherOfAllChristmases]

All you Tory voters might not like it & find it patronising to hear people saying that the TVFC but it's true. Shame on the LOT of you whatever bloody class you belong to!

[MotherOfAllChristmases]

And Brexit is fucking racist & fucking stupid. Oooh a socialist swore again. Get fucking used to it.

[MotherOfAllChristmases]

Exactly @CouldBeAGreatMum !! Disgusting!

[Justanotherlurker]

All you Tory voters might not like it & find it patronising to hear people saying that the TVFC but it's true. Shame on the LOT of you whatever bloody class you belong to!

That has been a proven tactic to win votes, doubling down shows your critical thinking skills.

[Justanotherlurker]

And Brexit is fucking racist & fucking stupid. Oooh a socialist swore again. Get fucking used to it.

It is the socialist vote that has lost the decades held heartlands, its not that a socialist swore people are laughing at, it is how out of touch you are with those you pretend you represent.

You being a champaign socialist was highlighted by orwell, you being well educated should surely have some understanding of that before your tired meme of lashing out and calling out everyone else racist.

How do you square the same multi national businesses/banks being against brexit and also corbyn?

This should be interesting from someone so educated...

[naughtynelliesnunnie]

thefluffysideofgrey Tue 17-Dec-19 16:38:32
You don't sound very speechless.

Anyway, everyone is scratching their heads trying to work out what went wrong.

Tory policy won't actually benefit people on low incomes. It just won't.

So, what is left? Personality. It had become a presidential style race.

Roy Chubby Brown is hugely popular where I come from. People would like to pretend that, that strand of working class culture doesn't exist but it does. Trust me, I grew up with it.

It's not pleasant and Boris played to it.

This post above, for me, as a staunch labour voter is why I voted tory this time. The absolute denial from some labour voters that it didn't come down to policies (and in my vote - labours pie in the sky policies were exactly why I voted conservative)

The refusal by Momentum, JC et al to actually listen to the reasons why, as a longstanding labour voter, I changed to tory means we'll never have a labour government in the next decade.

[Kljnmw3459]

It was the promise of brexit that won a lot of the votes. Worth noting that mostly the under 44s voted other parties than tories.

[Justanotherlurker]

Tommy Robinson has endorsed Boris's government...

Stormfront and BNP endorsed Corbyn in the last election, so don't try this guilt by association card.

If you want to really dig into it, why did BXP and UKIP gain most from labour seats over the past 2 elections.

If you are going to throw stones, don't stand in glass houses and still try and make a moral argument.

[Kljnmw3459]

We can argue about the left until the end of the days but we're still being governed by a very right wing government. I'm not expecting any actual improvement to the economy, especially in the north.

[Expo]

You know what. This is finished now. They ask. You tell them. They ask again. You tell them again. Then they ask again because they are not internalising and listening. So you tell them again. And so it will go on and on and on and on. How long it goes on for will depend on when they start listening. 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

[Expo]

@kljnmw3459 I think the disaster for labour is that this is not a very right wing government. Boris is centre right and he will banish now the far right ERG types. He has also told all Tory MPs not to go to Davos as that is all champagne drinking and they have real work to do. I tell you. That man may look like a bumbling buffoon but you don’t win a scholarship to Eton and then Oxford for being stupid.

[malificent7]

People dont remember the poll tax do they? There will never be change as the rich have all the power and control the media...if you are an astute business person and perhaps a bit ruthless you will do very well...if you are disabled and not so astute...well not so much ( and also it will be regarded as your fault as only the fittest survive/ personal responsibility/ should have worked harder at school yadda, yadda.)

[CharlottesPleb]

The refusal by Momentum, JC et al to actually listen to the reasons why, as a longstanding labour voter, I changed to tory means we'll never have a labour government in the next decade.

Worse than that, from their responses it looks like we won't have a debate. Just mounting accusations of racism, wanting disabled people to die and so on.

Democracy is wrong. Everybody is racist. How dare they.

It's troubling to contemplate where this is all headed. It's good that the Labour heartlands have seen through them at least.

[naughtynelliesnunnie]

malificent7 Tue 17-Dec-19 23:31:02
People dont remember the poll tax do they? There will never be change as the rich have all the power and control the media...if you are an astute business person and perhaps a bit ruthless you will do very well...if you are disabled and not so astute...well not so much ( and also it will be regarded as your fault as only the fittest survive/ personal responsibility/ should have worked harder at school yadda, yadda.)

What utter rubbish which is why labour have lost by such a majority. People like me, northerner who has historically voted labour and changed to conservative don't believe the bollix you spout such as poll tax - of course I remember the poll tax - I also remember it was wiped out ffs

It's not about being rich - It's about supporting a leader who stands by his word in getting brexit done and not listening to JC who hasn't the balls to put his belief on the table. It's absolutely JC and Momentum's fault they've lost this election and I'm bloody disgusted they STILL won't own up.

[thefluffysideofgrey]

@naughtynelliesnunnie

Stands by his word? Boris?

Really?

How will Brexit benefit the north? How will Tory policy benefit the north?

I have yet to get an answer. Not expecting one. Possible some insults, but not an answer. Maybe you'll call me a traitor? That's a common trope of the working class right.

[thefluffysideofgrey]

@CharlottesPleb

This is democracy.

It just doesn't end with one or two votes- it's a constant process of debate and revaluation.

The EDL et all are racist. It was the votes of that lot that Farage mobilised and then lent to the Tories.

Have you witnessed one of their rallies? Ran into one accidentally, bloody horrible.

[ethelfleda]

It’s also convenient how those who voted Tory are not listening to some of of what us ‘leftie’ types are trying to say to them either...
I’ve repeatedly said along this thread that there are a myriad of reasons why the election turned out the way it did and if we are to understand it better, we need to take ALL the reasons seriously. That means that we have to say that yes, Momentum seemingly did a terrible job at campaigning and turned most people off but ALSO there IS a large number of people who voted Tory for Brexit alone as they hate immigration - and some of those people are racist. All of these scenarios are possible at once.
And I have also repeatedly said that not everyone who voted leave or Tory is racist and not all of them want poor people to die. That would e a ridiculous thing to think.

The problem is that none of us can really analyse this result from a non-biased point of view. It’s too emotive and we cannot be impartial. Therefore we will have a long time yet of Labour voters shouting ‘racist Tories’ and Tory voters saying it was 100% Labour’s fault.

[ethelfleda]

I also think that most of us are doing a shit job at trying to change the other side’s mind. You don’t get someone to contemplate your point of view by hurling abuse at them or calling them stupid or ignorant. A friend of mine was fanatical about telling people not to vote during this election but he was so condescending and arrogant about it, that everyone he spoke to probably ended up doing the opposite just to spite him. That’s the way us humans are - our egos are fragile and we don’t like to be proven wrong. Any of us.

I really really think that both sides of this country need to start being much kinder to each other: we have the government we have. We can’t change that. We need to be united again!

[Kljnmw3459]

Ethel, it is the job of the government now to stop creating divisions.

[singledadstu]

The Labour parties own MPs and the woman most likely to win the leadership yesterday said that they blame Corbyn, momentum, unions for taking the party too far to a radical dictatorship style left . Tony Blair will release a report today from centralist labour point of view supporting that belief. Don’t waste your time arguing with people like me who voted Tory . Look at the absolute joke of today’s Labour Party . Nobody wants a puppet as prime minister, if momentum want to rule a political party perhaps they should stand themselves as a party

[ethelfleda]

I don’t believe I am wasting my time and I’m not trying to argue with you just because you’re a Tory. I don’t doubt what you say and agree that it is true and correct. BUT we can’t discount the fact that this country has moved to the right, as the USA has. You can’t blame all of that solely on Labour or labour voters... to do so is to ignore the problem.
And you’re further proving my point that neither side is capable of having an impartial or rational debate on the topic.

[ethelfleda]

Ethel, it is the job of the government now to stop creating divisions

To a point, I agree. But I am going to take responsibility for my own words and actions against anyway who doesn’t share my political beliefs and try to be more respectful of other people in that way. I personally think we all have a responsibility to the. Tory voters gloating or labour voters calling Tories racist is not exactly going to help matters.

[Trewser]

I don't believe this country has moved further to the right and its hugely lazy to conflate BJ with Trump.