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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Will the UK now accept the vote

559 replies

Gin96 · 13/12/2019 10:16

And move on with a united country, can we stop bickering and accept what people have voted for?

OP posts:
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7
Soen · 14/12/2019 21:45

Seems Brexity people only like complaining when its them doing the complaining. #doublestandards

MangoStone · 14/12/2019 21:47

@Soen
I guess we are just not believing hard enough 🤷‍♀️

Soen · 14/12/2019 21:48

I'm all out of faith Mango.

Whizbang · 14/12/2019 21:52

And lo, there was a Christmas miracle! A poster on this thread has changed my opinion on a political point through calm and well reasoned debate, and didn’t even call me a thicko when I disagreed and used a bad example to boot. Am I hallucinating?

Thank you @ListeningQuietly. I’ve been thinking about your well made PR points. I know FPTP is not fit for purpose, but have always mistrusted PR due to the risk of giving a louder voice to extreme views, e.g UKIP 2017. But you’ve convinced me that I missed the point. People would indeed vote differently if they could vote according to their true beliefs. Of course they would if FPTP didn’t force them to vote tactically to prevent truly awful parties gaining power (whichever party you consider to be awful, plenty to choose from!).

Just imagine the difference it would have made if the many thousands in the same boat had voted e.g greens, libdems, independent candidates without feeling like it to be a wasted vote due. I think labour would suffered heavy losses but we wouldn’t be facing such a sea of blue. A more accurate representation of the electorate’s view plus it would break the stranglehold of both main parties. You are absolutely right.

Cheers Listening. Am in a pub so can really raise a glass! V anti-social that I’m staring at my phone, but it’s so unusual these days for posters to stay civil in the face of disagreement, let alone successfully argue and change someone’s mind, that I couldn’t let it pass without comment. Plus I can be a stubborn sod irl too so double points for convincing me.

Up with this type of thing and down with the furious threads full of mudslinging that get us nowhere. There have been some vile threads of late full of insults and rage - the posters on this thread (the last few pages at least) are a welcome antidote to that. Gives me hope that we can find compromises and a common way forward together rather than ripping each other apart. Bravo!

IpanemaGallina · 14/12/2019 21:52

I accept that the conservatives now have a majority and can do what they want. But they got it through lies and media manipulation (and an utterly hopeless opposition).

Brexit is still a shit idea and I will continue to say and think so.

MangoStone · 14/12/2019 21:53

Me too Soen.

I wish I could summon up the blinkered and trusting vision of some of the people on this thread.

MangoStone · 14/12/2019 22:03

So now that the new government is in place and ready to deliver all these wonderful policies, I wonder what they'll start with. My guess is the NHS, in such dire need of investment. All those new doctors and nurses and midwives we will be getting. Or will it be education? Proper funding for schools, smaller class sizes. Housing? Welfare, universal credit? Public sector pay? A much needed plan for social care? So many really urgent priorities it's hard to know where to start.

Let's have a look in The Times and see if we can find out:

Abolition of the Fixed-term Parliament Act is expected to be included in the Queen’s Speech next week as Boris Johnson moves to lay the groundwork for a second term.

Changes to Westminster constituency boundariess_ which the Tories hope will make it easier for them to retain office is also likely to be an early priority, with a wider constitutional overhaul in prospect.

Oh. I must say I don't remember "making it easier for me to stay Prime Minister" being one of the promises but there you go. Who would have thought it 🤷‍♀️

Whizbang · 14/12/2019 22:05

Dammit. I spent too long writing my post and now the blame game and insults are back.

I take it you have a crystal ball that predicts the future Mango so that you can label others blinkered and hoodwinked in the confident certainty that you are right? No? In that case it’s just your opinion isn’t it. Everyone else is just as entitled to their opinion as you and that really doesn’t make them stupid. Can’t you explain why they are mistaken instead of immediately resorting to name calling? You will never change anyone’s mind by attacking and belittling them.

Soen · 14/12/2019 22:09

Do you have links Mango?

DontMakeMeShushYou · 14/12/2019 22:09

*'If the bloody diehard Remainers would just shut up and accept a Democratic result, there might be some chance.'8

This is ridiculous! You are confusing 'accepting a democratic result', with wanting people to change their minds. You would be hard pressed to find a single remainer who doesn't accept that 52% voted to leave the EU, but that's not enough for you. You also want those remainers to change their minds and to now agree that it is the right thing to do. They won't. They can't. That isn't how life, or democracy, works.

Nonnymum · 14/12/2019 22:10

Why should we accept something that we think is wrong. The anti Europeans never accepted it when we joined the EU and keot fighting even though we had a referendum so why should remainers give up now. Also 53%of people voted for parties that supported a 2nd referendum I wouldn't actually call that a 'drinking mandate'

Soen · 14/12/2019 22:11

Whizbang - apparently remainers need to shut the fuck up. So it seems we're only entitled to an opinion when it's the 'right' one.

ListeningQuietly · 14/12/2019 22:11

Whizbang
Clinks glasses with you
I am delighted that I was able to help you see that there is a better way
and hopefully others read it too
and your conversion will spread wider

because this whole Brexit shitshow has ripped the country asunder
political reform might just be the thing that pulls is back together

if the Tories push through the reduction to 600 seats
AND
allow PR
they will still have a majority for now
but the left behinds will have been listened to

MangoStone · 14/12/2019 22:14

@Whizbang
If you look upthread you will see some instances of me explaining why people are mistaken. Just one example is someone voting Tory to get us out of the EU because they are fed up with austerity. (A Tory policy.)

I didn't say hoodwinked.

I did say blinkered - it's the only way I can think to describe people voting Tory in the hopes of investment in the NHS when we have had nine years of cuts to public services under a Tory government. It seems it can only be wilful ignorance or blind optimism in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

Soen · 14/12/2019 22:15

@ListeningQuietly - I'm in favour of PR. But I don't understand the ins and outs of it.

If we had that kind of system, would parliament stagnate? As in would people end up voting the same party everytime? I'm not clued up enough on the topic.

MangoStone · 14/12/2019 22:15

Link to that Times article, hope it works

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-laws-may-change-as-johnson-eyes-decade-in-no-10-rkw86zvfr

Whizbang · 14/12/2019 22:18

You’re my favourite ListeningQuietly, cheers!

Soen - I’ve seen a whole bunch of nasty from both sides. Unhelpful whoever is doling it out.

Soen · 14/12/2019 22:20

That's depressing Mango Angry

MangoStone · 14/12/2019 22:20

Might have to change my user name to DepressedButNotSurprised

ReanimatedSGB · 14/12/2019 22:24

I think one of the biggest reasons many on the remain/non-Tory side won't 'just shut up' is because there are so many of us. Literally about half the country. Which makes it quite thoroughly unsettling for the right-of-centre to keep banging on about The People when they specifically mean 'only those who know their place agree with us.' If only rightwingers are people, where does that leave, you know, roughly half the population? Are we not people?

ReanimatedSGB · 14/12/2019 22:26

Because it is fairly common for rightwingers, particularly white male ones, to sincerely believe - and behave as though it's a Universal Truth - that white men are people and those who are not white, not male, or neither, are not quite people: they are 'special interests'.

Whizbang · 14/12/2019 22:29

Mango - sorry I missed those posts as I was writing my own. Fair play for backing up your argument and making your case.

However I don’t think calling others blinkered is helpful. You criticise “blinkered” conservative voters making their choice because they believe cons would invest in the nhs. How on earth do you know what their priorities were when casting their vote? You simply don’t, it’s impossible, so using labels like that just gets people’s backs up and achieves nothing other than making the debate even more toxic. (btw I’m not meaning to single you out - your language is nothing compared what’s been said by many others on both sides on these boards!).

BringPizza · 14/12/2019 22:30

As said countless times before on this thread, I 'accept' the result of the general election insofar as I am not on the street protesting and demanding a re-run. Do I 'accept' leaving the EU? No, imo it's the dumbest idea to have hit the air in a very long time.

ListeningQuietly · 14/12/2019 22:30

soen
Learning about PR
Have a read of these people
www.electoral-reform.org.uk/
and then I strongly recommend following the rabbit hole starting here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation
as then you can see how the different systems work in different parts of the world

When I was young, PR meant dysfunction because Italy had PR and were dysfunctional.
Now I am old I realise that PR was not the problem, Italy was Grin

notmuchtooffer · 14/12/2019 22:33

Nah not a chance. Brexit is still a disaster for this country, Tory majority or not.

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