AIBU to ask you to read this before you vote

[12goldstars]

I keep hearing people say that they will be worse off if they vote labour. Unless you’re very wealthy it’s simply not the case. This is just an example of what’s happening.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/10/break-embargo-expose-press-lies-labour

I don’t understand why people are seeing paying £5000 more in tax as such an issue if you’re already earning over £80k a year. I don’t understand what expenses you are paying that losing that £5k could have such a dramatic effect on your life. Yes it’s your hard earned money, but it’s about being a decent human being and using your money to help those in dire need of it.

This. My husband and I are in a similar position to the poster worrying about tax increase. But, we are prepared to pay more tax in order to save public services like schools and the NHS. It won’t make us poor. I teach in a deprived area, I’m very aware of wealth inequality and that comparatively high earners like us can and should do more, to create a fairer society.

Please please can people stop with the 'if you earn £80,000 you'll pay £5,000 extra tax'

That is a complete and utter lie

Two separate facts:
If you earn more than £80k, under labour you will pay more tax. As an example, on £82k you'd pay an extra tenner a month. Not £5,000

A pp said that her specific circumstances mean her family would pay £5k extra tax. I haven't done the sums but to pay £5k extra tax you'd need to be earning a LOT more than £80k! If we extrapolate that £10pm, call it £100pa equates to £2k salary above £80k then that means an extra £5k tax correlates to about £180K salary. I'd argue quite strongly that someone on that amount, someone well and truly in the 1%, can pay an extra £5k a year. They take home approx £10k per month! I think paying an extra £500 per month is a drop in the ocean to help fund the entire country to run

Unsurprisingly the people on eg £8,000,000+ are the ones really worried about this. They're also the ones who own the media. I wonder if this could be why their reporting is so biased

@Ibizafun posts like yours are exactly what the problem is. That people believe what they are told with a lack of critical thinking. Corbyn is not an anti Semite. He is anti Israel which is completely different. I completely agree that he hasn’t done enough to stamp out antisemitism in the Labour Party. There is a problem and he has failed there but that doesn’t make him anti Semitic. Actually there is the same problem in the Conservative party, plus islamaphobia which is rife. Johnson has made very clear anti Islamic and racist statements. I’m assuming that these are ok with you?
That he is a terrorist sympathiser is also bollocks. Yes he has met with terrorists but many leaders have in an effort to broker peace. Peace cannot be achieved without engaging both sides. If you want to talk about consorting with terrorists then you don’t have to look any further than the current government’s deal with the DUP.
Before I get accused of being a labour bot or a Corbyn apologist, I will not be voting for him. I will be voting tactically for someone else because it’s most important for me to stop the conservatives. What I don’t want is for people to not vote labour and therefore let the conservatives in because they believe the media smear about Corbyn. A lot isn’t true.

Boris Johnson is a liar GiveHerHellFromUs. That's not an outlandish claim, it's a well known statement of fact.

owlsintowels

Very easy for you to happily
Spend 500£ a month extra when it’s someone else’s money you think is so fair to give a way! I don’t want to sacrifice another 500£ a fucking month, because we already pay a huge fucking tax bill and that’s enough! No wonder people send their money offshore.

12goldstars

I wonder why the Chief Rabbi has come forward to condemn Jeremy Corbyn and
the party as a whole because of their anti semitism? Interesting that you seem to think you speak for the Jewish community more than he does. Backed up by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

The chief rabbi is a personal friend of Johnson 🙄
I am not speaking for the Jewish community. I completely agree that there is antisemitism in the Labour Party that has not been properly addressed. I am just pointing out that there is a lot more to it than the ‘Corbyn is an anti Semite’ line which keeps being repeated.

"I am not speaking for the Jewish community"

And you don't know what it is like. Would you dare to minimise racism against a black or an asian person? against muslims?

12goldstars are you sure it’s bollocks that JC is a terrorist sympathiser? he pronounced the death of Osama Bin Laden “a tragedy”. Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”. Invited two IRA members to Parliament two weeks after Brighton bombing. Said the 7/7 bombers had been “denied hope & opportunity”. Met Hamas leaders several times. Voted against increased funding for security services to combat terrorism.

Whether he personally is an anti-semite is of little consequence to me when he endorses it in his party.

Owlsintowels
“Unsurprisingly the people on eg £8,000,000+ are the ones really worried about this. They're also the ones who own the media.”
I assume you are referring to the Jews?

“

@AIBU1112 I do actually know what it is like. I’m not practicing but I am Jewish so you can get off your high horse. I am minimising absolutely nothing, just trying to sort fact from media smear.

Of course it won’t just be the ‘very wealthy’ who will suffer under Labour. It will be average Joe who will suffer - the people who are comfortable with their three bed semi and one holiday a year, but not rich enough to afford a good accountant to make the most out of the tax loopholes and not poor enough to take advantage of the many welfare schemes labour intends to implement.

I will be taxed more under labour and would be happy for that money to go to a better funded nhs and schools etc

Corbyn has opposed disastrous wars in Iraq, Syria while Johnson has enthusiastically supported them. Not a terrorist in my book.

Average Joe in my book does not earn £160k. Which salary bracket are you talking about and can you cite an example?

I don't earn £85k (not even that close to it). However, as someone else pointed out, if I did, I would already be paying £27,114 in DIRECT tax alone. By any measure that is a significant contribution which I don't think should be increased (Be it by a tenner or £5k!)

People accuse Tories of an ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude but I guarantee that millions are voting Labour because they will get showered with benefits and you know it.

I saw this post up thread and I can't help but agree. I'm not saying that everyone who is voting Labour will be better off (according to some of the martyrs on here there are loads of wealthy people queuing up to throw their money at Corbyn for 'the good of society'!).

There will certainly be a good number of people who WOULD be financially better off under Labour but this never gets mentioned. Nobody says "I will vote Labour because I will be better off if the benefit cap is abolished", they claim they are all about 'supporting the vulnerable' (which just happens to include them).

There is nothing wrong with voting for the party which best represents your own interests (it's what I'll be doing). The difference is, Tory voters don't dress it up as being 'virtuous'.

YANBU. Thank you for sharing this.

Average Joe in my book does not earn £160k.

It's definitely not average Joe, but it's definitely not Jeff Bezos territory either.

@ibizafun I have no idea of the religion of the five billionaires who control most of UK media.
They are Rupert Murdoch
Richard Desmond
Viscount Rotgermete
The two Barclay brothers

I genuinely have no idea if they're all Jews or not, and I don't care.. They're billionaires who control most of our news and who have a very strong influence indeed on any election result. They will be hit hard by Labour tax increases

I personally will be hit too, my salary is nearing £80k, will reach it in the not too distant future. My husband's is over £100k. We're both happy to pay more tax, we're very comfortable indeed compared to most of the UK nevermind worldwide. Of course I'd like more money to spend on whatever I like, but I understand that the country needs the money to provide infrastructure and services for everyone to use, and that need is greater than my need for a Michelin meal rather than a nice gastropub, which is really the choice I'm making when I vote to pay an extra ~£50-100pm tax

Well said PBo. Also Labour will mess up the country so much everyone will be worse off even the poor.

If you have not been out to vote yet 9I just got back and it was unusually busy which I hope means we can increase the local Tory (London borough) majority. Last time the Tories got about 60% of the votes of those voting in the last general election.

I’m not sure how the disabled who have had their benefits removed due to Atos miraculously curing them could be worse off @Xenia

Please Vote Labour.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Tories and would probably still vote Labour. But I do think it's a scary prospect to a lot of people to suddenly get a huge tax rise.

Why should we be treated differently to couples who happen to be married?

This one gets me every time .....
Maybe because you've chosen not to get married.
If you want the protections, benefits, restrictions and disadvantages that marriage brings then get married. Why the constant wails that marriage and co-habitation should mean the same thing?

And nobody "happens" to be married.

Let's face it. No party gives a shit about the public. This year is the first time I've considered not voting (but probably will) because they're all as bad as each other. I won't vote Labour or Conservative so it's kind of a wasted vote but I can't bring myself to vote for one of them!

I logged into FB this morning and there was a post from Jeremy Corbyn that reads:

The poorest people shouldn't have to pay for the failures of the richest. It's time the richest pay their fair share of tax.

Since Labour have appeared lumped all the 'richest' 5% as those who earn over £80k, are we not doing a huge disservice to those who just go to work and pay their tax? Most people can see a vast difference between someone who earns £100k to a multi-millionaire with vast family wealth. These people haven't failed anyone- they pay the correct tax set by the Government and, by the figures circulating, that's 1/3 of all income tax in the country. I'm not in the £80k bracket and I'm not a conservative voter BUT it's unfair to demonise those high earners like Labour have as if they're all sat at home throwing wads of cash on the fire at the expense of the 'poorest'.

@fivesecondrule

I completely agree. Like I mentioned upthread, someone on £85k will already be paying over £26,000 in direct tax alone. This isn't money gifted to them, this is money they earn through hard work. I find it hard to justify taking yet more money from people who work for it.

These people haven't 'failed' anyone.