AIBU to ask you to read this before you vote

[12goldstars]

I keep hearing people say that they will be worse off if they vote labour. Unless you’re very wealthy it’s simply not the case. This is just an example of what’s happening.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/10/break-embargo-expose-press-lies-labour

I don’t understand why people are seeing paying £5000 more in tax as such an issue if you’re already earning over £80k a year. I don’t understand what expenses you are paying that losing that £5k could have such a dramatic effect on your life. Yes it’s your hard earned money, but it’s about being a decent human being and using your money to help those in dire need of it.

You Labour voters can be so dense. Every time your argument is disproved you change and pretend you were saying something else.

Yes the picture was real. Yes the hospital were experiencing unusual demand.

Boris might not have wanted to look but you don't know that.

I care about the child not having a bed but I don't want to look at the picture because it's distressing.
Not wanting to look doesn't mean he doesn't care.

Every aspect of the NHS privately owned by American companies were sold by the last LABOUR government.

@Berrylove £500 a month is a lot to a 1 income family.

12goldstars
Your op links to George Monbiot, editor of Land for the Many in which he writes;

"The measures listed below would discourage land and housing from being treated as financial assets."

I'm rather fond of my home/financial asset.

I will be worse off as a pensioner whose pension is less than 12,500 so I can transfer some of my tax free allowance to DH so our income will drop but £250 which will not be made up by money for childcare or other things that have been offered

Don't worry I'm sure the extended wait for a hip replacementor other age related NHS service you need in the future will just fly by.

The problem is, you are raising the tax for the wealthy to pay for NHS and education they will barely use. They will be funding other peoples lives.
Where is the incentive for them to vote for that?

The teachers in the private schools, the doctors and nurses in their private hospitals still need to be educated. Little William's violin tutor still needs access to a GP appointment and antibiotics she can afford, if she's to be able to teach him. They won't want to sit in A&E for 24 hours in agony before being seen (private healthcare often excludes or is even longer to access for emergency treatment).

I also think they have a responsibility to contribute.

They already do contribute though, the top 5% already pay 31% of all direct tax revenue. I imagine as a demographic, they also take out the least from the system.

The question is, is this a fair contribution or not?

Every time your argument is disproved you change and pretend you were saying something else.
Not a Labour voter, but anyway, ^^ this is exactly what you have done on this thread GiveHerHellFromUs. Boris Johnson is a liar. That is a fact.

Most people absolutely won't pay more tax, and those that will (earning over £80,000) will only be taxed proportionately. We will fall into that bracket and I am happy to pay, because as a result, we will have an NHS which works, lower crime rates, a better-educated population, an end to people sleeping on the streets. I want/need that more than I want/need a more luxurious lifestyle.

@GiveHerHellFromUs it would only be that much if you’re earning more than 150k.

12goldstars you are wrong when you say "you will not pay any more tax or national insurance if you earn 80k or less". It's been made very clear by independent fact checkers that a number of people lie outside this category and will be affected, such as pensioners who get their income as dividends, as well as those affected by cutting the married persons tax allowance.
I don't disagree that those who earn more can afford to pay more (and I also support cutting the marriage allowance) but it's ironic you repeat a party political fib on a thread allegedly about truth in politics ...

Ok, Labour bot

You Labour voters can be so dense.

And I could throw at you that you Tory voters can be so selfish that you're prepared to vote for a party who has cut services to mental health so much they my friend committed suicide while on the wait list for treatment - she is far from the only one. You're prepared to vote for a party who have cut services so much that people are dying from a lack of insulin or electricity to run a fridge to store it. So much that perfectly continent people who need help to get out of a wheelchair onto the loo have had their support cut so much that their care teams are putting them in incontinence pads and telling them to wet and soil themselves because they can't fund carers more than twice in 24 hours.

No, I'm not fucking dense, I've got the letters after my name to prove it. Just like I'm sure you're not without compassion. Do better than name calling.

Yabu op by assuming people haven't done their homework.

For anyone using care as an example of a positive labour vote then you are extremely misguided. The proposed increase in NMW will impact the care companies massively putting insane pressure in the already overstretched reablement teams. The proposed income will not remotely offset it.

Its wonderful that Corbyn's woke brigade want to champion better increase for health and social care but those of us who live in the real world and do the maths realise the Labour policies are simply not sustainable. I don't fancy saving up problems for my DC.

Increased tax is not a simple answer. There is no simple answer and if people could avoid naive emotive campaigning and treat people like adults that would be a hell of a lot better.

I would love to vote labour...and I will, when they avoid emotional blackmail and show a real solid financial plan which is based on something other than sand , Hope's and dreams.

It's actually annoying , I come from a strong union family who have always been labour. However the reliance on hyperbole and lack of practicality have turned us all.

Boris is a bastard but at least he is a smart bastard.

I understand you experience poor care, but the majority of people didn’t. Whereas now a huge percentage of people do. Almost 5,500 people died in hospital corridors since 2016. Deaths that could have been prevented.

But you are telling people they must have had bad care recently because of the evil Tories cuts.

Actually, care here was worse under labour. Nationally, that might not be the case but when it comes to voting peoples personal experiences and the experiences of those around them matter.

In this area the NHS was shit under labour. So of course people here dont believe they will fix it. Treating those people like they are idiots doesnt help labours cause.

Are you actually saying under labour there were no deaths from people left in corridors? Really?

During my stay in hospital in my example I was, at 16, put on ward with women who had dementia and rarely slept. It was a shit show. And here that wasnt a rare experience.

Also, people seem to be forgetting the financial state labour left the country in. They diner want to be elected in 2010. They chickened out. Made unelectable Gordon Brown PM because they didnt want to be the party to sort the mess.

They created the mess. Hoped the Toriea would take the shit for trying to aort8it and then they could swoop back in, with ease

They dont actually give a shit. Remember the note, was it 'good luck it's all gone'.

Neither party gives shit or have a plan.

@TheLittleBrownFox my friend killed himself after having the best MH care from the NHS you could possibly ask for.

I'm not naive enough to think these services don't matter. But every government has its priorities. I agree with you mental health should be a priority for all governments.

I don't think all labour voters are dense, just the ones who can't give a sensible argument and just resort to "yeah but Boris is a liar."

I know people have reasons to vote Labour and I agree with a lot of them. But there's also a lot I disagree with and I can have a proper conversation about it, as I assume you can.

I'm sorry about your friend.

I think YABU. Sorry but I'm just sick of people trying to push their opinions and 'facts' on others about how Labour/Tory etc are liars and they should vote a specific party. Let people make their own minds up. Politics is getting crazy, we're getting more and more like America by the day.

Berrylove Wed 11-Dec-19 11:42:56
I don’t understand why people are seeing paying £5000 more in tax as such an issue if you’re already earning over £80k a year. I don’t understand what expenses you are paying that losing that £5k could have such a dramatic effect on your life.

Because someone earning £80,000 is already paying £25,000 in direct tax. They will have commitments based upon what they earn, and to lose 10% of your disposable income is a huge amount to most of us.

Some of us don't vote based upon whether we will be financially better off ourselves.

I presume you are in a position of financial security. You would not argue that otherwise.

No thank you

Some of us don't vote based upon whether we will be financially better off ourselves.

But many people do.

My lovely friend has voted Labour purely for the benefit she will gain as a Waspi woman. IMO very short-sighted, but people do make decisions based upon their own situation - she wants for finish work asap, and currently can't afford to.

On Twitter today, posted by @HadleyFreeman:

Not understanding why people are voting differently from you in this election does not mean you’re Right and they’re Wrong. It means you lack empathy or curiosity

She has a point.

My lovely friend has voted Labour purely for the benefit she will gain as a Waspi woman. IMO very short-sighted, but people do make decisions based upon their own situation - she wants for finish work asap, and currently can't afford to.

She's deluded. There absolutely won't be the money there. Bottom of the priority list (as it probably should be and I'm one of them)

I'm voting tactically to prevent (hopefully) a Tory win in my constituency because I've seen what this Government and the DWP are doing to disabled people, and what I've seen has made me very, very pissed off.

don't be ridiculous, people dont just vote based on their financial situation! Nothing could posses me to vote for labour either, and likewise, there are people who will say the same about the conservatives - i will however never try and change their political mind - that's just rude.

They already do contribute though, the top 5% already pay 31% of all direct tax revenue. I imagine as a demographic, they also take out the least from the system.

The question is, is this a fair contribution or not?

This.