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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU why do women have more than 2 children

300 replies

Gin96 · 09/12/2019 12:45

2 children, Now we have the benifit cap? I see so many women struggling after having baby number 3 after the cut off date in 2017. I don’t agree with the cap but it is what it is. Men should pay towards their children but i’m afraid a lot don’t and it’s left on the shoulders of women. Why do women put themselves in this vulnerable position?

OP posts:
Emmapeeler1 · 09/12/2019 18:50

Agreed baguette.

notnowmaybelater · 09/12/2019 18:50

The cap is Dickensian and retrogressive. Bring back tests to find out who are the truly deserving poor, perhaps...

In fact it's more of a brutal ancient approach to social justice than even that isn't it?

Punish the children for the sins of the fathers? How very old testament...

Original poster
Gin96 · 09/12/2019 18:52

It’s a fact of life that most women are the ones left looking after the children. Men seem to be able to set up another family without giving a second thought for their first family, it’s not right but that’s what happens. Look on step parents thread.

OP posts:
Elbeagle · 09/12/2019 18:55

Just because you can’t cope, doesn’t mean no one can Gin96.
I cope fine with my three thanks. Financially (with no benefits), emotionally and physically. Many people do.

JacobReesClunge · 09/12/2019 18:59

But do a statistically significant number of people really have children for benefits, or have children intending to live on benefits?

Nah. The benefits alone aren't enough, so it would be a pretty daft move. What people do do is have children, usually one or two given that not many people in this country have three or more and this was true even pre-cap, is have children in the knowledge that they will require some top up benefits in order to raise them. As in, topping up their wages. Because the other alternative is often not having any at all. It is this decision that some on MN seem to find particularly offensive.

Original poster
Gin96 · 09/12/2019 19:07

People don’t have children for benefits, they still have 3 children even though there is now cap of 2 children

OP posts:
Thefaceofboe · 09/12/2019 19:09

If you can’t afford children and are going to rely on the state, don’t have them. If you can afford them, have as many as you like.

Baguetteaboutit · 09/12/2019 19:11

People don’t have children for benefits, they still have 3 children even though there is now cap of 2 children

Erm, yeah...are you still on page 1 op?

SeditionSue · 09/12/2019 19:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 09/12/2019 19:30

The line has to be drawn somewhere though. For a cap to have had to be introduced surely must mean that many people were having multiple children and claiming rather than taking personal responsibility for the choices they made and financing them themselves.. Society doesn’t make people have children and contraception is free in the UK.

If there was a law to make men pay for their responsibilities, or go to jail, there would be fewer absent fathers

I think there should be harsh penalties for both sexes not just one for failure to financially support a child. Plenty of both RP and NRP that don’t currently.

JacobReesClunge · 09/12/2019 19:31

If you can’t afford children and are going to rely on the state, don’t have them. If you can afford them, have as many as you like.

Out of interest, how are you defining afford? Does it just mean you don't require any state benefits to feed, house and clothe them etc or do you also mean not using any of the childcare subsidies, the NHS or state education system for them? Because we only get CB, and could easily do without it, but would struggle to afford full private education and healthcare. I feel pretty reliant on the state for the costs of those.

Rosebel · 09/12/2019 19:36

Some men leave their first family in shit. Not all of them. My husband supports his daughter from his,first marriage possibly more than our children. You can't seem to justify why it's anyone's business how many children people have. Why do you even care?
Some people are stupid and irresponsible but that doesn't mean everyone with more than two children is.

Baguetteaboutit · 09/12/2019 19:39

For a cap to have had to be introduced surely must mean that many people were having multiple children and claiming rather than taking personal responsibility for the choices they made and financing them themselves

Oh my sweet summer child. I love that you think that this was a well thought through and costed out policy and not a sweetner for those who were living more financially strained lives and needed a dog to kick.

showmewhatyougot · 09/12/2019 19:42

Because they want to?

Also believe it or not some women don't rely on benefits or a man and actually work themselves? Madness right?!

Original poster
Gin96 · 09/12/2019 19:43

When people are struggling but still keep having children, saying how they don’t have any money and can’t afford the rent each month but they are pregnant with their 4th child, I struggle to understand why they put themselves in this situation? There are choices, there is the morning after pill, free condoms, free contraceptive pill, free abortion.

OP posts:
Decidewhattobeandgobeit · 09/12/2019 19:44

Some people aren’t on benefits?

Elbeagle · 09/12/2019 19:44

How many people do you know in that situation Gin96?

neonglow · 09/12/2019 19:45

That liverpool couple with the 7 kids in the paper... yes, there are going to be SOME irresponsible families like them (although it would be interesting to explore just why they have ended up in their situation) but most people hit by this cap are going to be working families, often where both parents work and at least one in full-time work, who have an unplanned pregnancy, or women who are left by their partner.

arethereanyusernamesleftatall · 09/12/2019 19:45

Stay out of other peoples uteri

Well said.

Original poster
Gin96 · 09/12/2019 19:48

@elbeagle a lot

OP posts:
Ispy123 · 09/12/2019 19:50

What a stupid thing to say

Elbeagle · 09/12/2019 19:51

I’ve racked my brains and can’t think of anyone I know who moans continuously about not being able to pay their rent but keeps having more and more children.

SeditionSue · 09/12/2019 19:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

neonglow · 09/12/2019 19:52

@Gin96 Well health services aren’t the best atm, I mentioned upthread that I waited over 3 months to have a copper coil inserted. The local contraception clinic shut down and GP wait times are crappy. Making it longer/more difficult to access contraception will undoubtedly lead to increased unplanned pregnancies.

Although funnily enough many of the politicians who hate benefits for parents and single mothers are also against abortion and contraception 🤔

As for the ones who intentionally keep on getting pregnant (and I believe they are FAR fewer than we are led to believe) I don’t know the thought process behind that mentality but it would be interesting to explore why they don’t feel life has any more options or hope for them beyond having another child. Lack of education and their own upbringing? Less privileged start in life and lack of opportunities from this? I’m guessing many of them simply don’t know any better.

Baguetteaboutit · 09/12/2019 19:55

I don't know anyone with four kids, let alone anyone who does and cannot pay their rent. Confused

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